Farewell #33 Jack Ginnivan

[PyreneesPie]

https://www.3aw.com.au/sam-mcclure-hits ... f-lightly/

[Piesnchess]

This has the smell of a deliberate set up.
Ginnivan in a cubicle with a stranger getting filmed by “suspicious” stranger who then shopped it around to media outlets.
I’d be interested to know if there is a relationship between the seller and the cubicle perving creep.

Yep, tell ya what, if some dork bought a camera into a dunney when im pointing percy at the porcelain, and filmed me, he would have one smashed camera, thats for sure. This smells like a set up, stinks like a 3 day old fish, left in the fridge, something does not add up for me. But, Jack will do his penance, and next week this will be yesterdays news, forgotten.

[think positive]

[RudeBoy]

I actually don't think this whole Ginnivan thing is such a big deal. Get over it folks. People take drugs. I don't, and never have, and I think they are bad for your health and mental well-being. But nevertheless, blind Freddy knows that most young people have dabbled in some form of illicit drugs at one time or another. Sure, its against the law, but so is jay-walking.

Having said all this, in light of the AFL and Collingwood's policy on drug use, without doubt Ginni is a dickhead for being so stupid and reckless. However, he's owned up to his wrong-doing and accepted the club's punishment. I reckon we should move on. He's copped his whack. Hopefully, he'll come back better than ever.

[watt price tully]

https://www.3aw.com.au/sam-mcclure-hits-out-at-those-suggesting-jack-ginnivan-has-got-off-lightly/

Thanks for that; the reporter / sports journalist got it right in one.

[Pies2016]

https://www.3aw.com.au/sam-mcclure-hits-out-at-those-suggesting-jack-ginnivan-has-got-off-lightly/

Thanks for that; the reporter / sports journalist got it right in one.

Thanks P P. Mcclure’s take on it is definitely worth listening to.

[Harrysz]

Darcy Moore's statement was good in parts but wasn't entirely appropriate.
He said "Jack has made an error."
If you don't see a banana skin on the ground and you slip over, you've made an error.
If you miscalculate the price of something and you overpay, you've made an error.
If you take drugs when you know your contract says you're not allowed to take drugs then you haven't made an error. You've deliberately breached a rule of your employment. I'm sick of all of this PR gobbledegook. "I made a mistake" or "I made an error of judgment". All this PRspeak does is to sanitise the offence and ignores the deliberate status of the conduct. If Jack truly "OWNS it" as he says then he and others shouldn't say he made an error.

OK, the person who took the footage and sold it is a lowlife but there'd be no problem if Jack hadn't taken drugs.

[Boot]

I'm over the acceptance of taking illegal drugs as " its part of society" or "its hypocritical to have heroin safe drug centers yet be upset about a young man taking party drugs".
Its a fact that illegal drugs cause enormous damage to thousands of people and their families in Australia. No-one starts out with the ambition to end up addicted to any of these illegal drugs yet thousands of people do and for many of them their lives spiral down to ever lower standards at a terrible cost to them and their families. That's why these drugs are illegal, they are a health hazard that costs thousands of individuals their health and self esteem and robs them of a fulfilling life, their families untold pain and suffering having to deal with the pathetic low life levels their loved ones are reduced to by their addiction and costs the community billions of dollars in lost productivity and health care looking after these individuals who have lost their way into an existence that is dependent on illegal drugs.
The drug problem in Australia is growing, in my opinion, because of a passive acceptance of their use in society and a selfish section of the community that thinks their use of "party drugs" can be done without recrimination, penalty or risk.
It would appear that I'm in the minority in feeling the AFL and society in general should inact a zero acceptance policy for use of illegal drugs. I've loved watching Jack Ginnivan play in 2022 and show what a naturally talented footballer can still deliver on the biggest stage in football. Hence my huge disappointment in seeing that he has made the decision to partake of illegal drugs because he can and put his career at risk. The sad part of this sorry story is that instead of Jack being a smart arse, fun loving kid with a terrific future to be a cult figure at the best football club in Australia and have a career that has the potential to flourish post football into media and social influencer, he has condemned himself to be just another dickhead, selfish drug user. Does he not think of Sam Murray who lost his AFL career due to a similar dalliance's that went wrong or Josh Thomas and Lachie Keefe who went very close to loosing their total career but were "lucky" to only loose 2 years of their prime years.
I'd love Collingwood and the AFL to take a zero policy to illegal drugs and ban players for a year upon the first strike of use of illegal drugs and life ban for a second strike. However the sad reallity is that so many of the AFL footballers are on the juice that we would be left with half the teams being banned. However as hard as that may be, maybe it would make the young men who sacrifice so much and work so hard to be an AFL player think a bit more closely about their decisions when it comes to doing illegal drugs. Their not being forced into being AFL footballers and there are thousands of young men who would happily step up to get the opportunity to replace any current AFL players who don't want to reject illegal drugs to maintain their career in the AFL.
As for the low life who deal in drugs and profit from the import and distribution of illegal drugs I'd like to see these dealers in human misery given the same punishments as occur in Singapore, Malaysia and Indoneasia where drug trafficers are given the death penalty.

[David]

What a crock of shit. I love Jack but I’m not empathising with him at all, he knows better, he gas been educated on the matter, all of the dickheads have, but they still think they are bulletproof. He wasn’t even unlucky to get caught, he played tight into their hands. I don’t condone drugs in any situation, they are against the law, they kill or lead yo bad decisions that can cause you to kill. But more importantly, they are against the law, it doesn’t matter what you think. I do understand, he thought he would get away with it. He’s sorry he didn’t. The only good is that his strike is out there, unlike many more whose have remained secret so far, this might just wake him up. No big deal? How much will he lose in match payments?

That’s your opinion and you’re obviously entitled to it, but I have to pull you up on the bolded section, which is a real throwback to '90s "War on Drugs" attitudes. (Spoiler: that approach didn’t work, and did nothing to either curb recreational drug use or address its harms; instead, its zero-tolerance orientation, entailing often severe punishments, damaged many lives.)

The most elementary mistake is to talk about "drugs" as if they’re all the same. All drugs carry risks, but ketamine is on the relatively low end of the scale: you can’t die from overdosing on it in isolation, it’s not addictive and it’s not a drug like ice that is associated with violent behaviour. I think it’s fair to say, on balance, that getting drunk is a much bigger risk to yourself and those around you than ketamine use. If you don’t condone any recreational drug use, then you would have to include alcohol in that category. But we all know that the most strident anti-drug people tend to see no problem with getting on the beers, as this classic satirical song by The Streets pointed out: https://youtu.be/EZx5OgKQNrA

Of course, it is an illegal drug nonetheless, and anyone who buys or uses it is running the risk of being arrested, with all the attendant consequences. But even if we are to see recreational drug use as a societal problem that needs to be remedied through any and all available means, then we need to be at the very least dealing with it intelligently and sensitively. The old War on Drugs attitude doesn’t cut it anymore, on any level.

Edit: this also serves as a response to Boot’s post above.

[Mr Miyagi]

[piedys]

[Pies4shaw]

^ I'd prefer we picked the team on form (at the time), bearing in mind that Ginnivan kicked 5 goals and received three Brownlow votes on Anzac Day 2022 in a game Collingwood won by less than two goals.

There is simply no point pretending that all players are more or less equal. They aren't. The Collingwood list has no genuine replacement for Ginnivan, irrespective of what people would like to imagine based on pre-season training. Let's just hope he knuckles down and plays (more) good football off the back of this. He is one of our most consistent and best. It's a shame he's apparently been a bit of an idiot - but they don't ask you to take an IQ test before you shoot for goal.

Otherwise, I simply don't understand the pile on. He's just turned 20 and been caught doing the wrong thing once. Given the appalling way he was treated as a teenager by the media and opposing fans (and then the umpires) last season for doing no more than playing to the rules, it's surprising that his particular form of acting up was so tepid.

[watt price tully]

I'm over the acceptance of taking illegal drugs as " its part of society" or "its hypocritical to have heroin safe drug centers yet be upset about a young man taking party drugs".
Its a fact that illegal drugs cause enormous damage to thousands of people and their families in Australia. No-one starts out with the ambition to end up addicted to any of these illegal drugs yet thousands of people do and for many of them their lives spiral down to ever lower standards at a terrible cost to them and their families. That's why these drugs are illegal, they are a health hazard that costs thousands of individuals their health and self esteem and robs them of a fulfilling life, their families untold pain and suffering having to deal with the pathetic low life levels their loved ones are reduced to by their addiction and costs the community billions of dollars in lost productivity and health care looking after these individuals who have lost their way into an existence that is dependent on illegal drugs.
The drug problem in Australia is growing, in my opinion, because of a passive acceptance of their use in society and a selfish section of the community that thinks their use of "party drugs" can be done without recrimination, penalty or risk.
It would appear that I'm in the minority in feeling the AFL and society in general should inact a zero acceptance policy for use of illegal drugs. I've loved watching Jack Ginnivan play in 2022 and show what a naturally talented footballer can still deliver on the biggest stage in football. Hence my huge disappointment in seeing that he has made the decision to partake of illegal drugs because he can and put his career at risk. The sad part of this sorry story is that instead of Jack being a smart arse, fun loving kid with a terrific future to be a cult figure at the best football club in Australia and have a career that has the potential to flourish post football into media and social influencer, he has condemned himself to be just another dickhead, selfish drug user. Does he not think of Sam Murray who lost his AFL career due to a similar dalliance's that went wrong or Josh Thomas and Lachie Keefe who went very close to loosing their total career but were "lucky" to only loose 2 years of their prime years.
I'd love Collingwood and the AFL to take a zero policy to illegal drugs and ban players for a year upon the first strike of use of illegal drugs and life ban for a second strike. However the sad reallity is that so many of the AFL footballers are on the juice that we would be left with half the teams being banned. However as hard as that may be, maybe it would make the young men who sacrifice so much and work so hard to be an AFL player think a bit more closely about their decisions when it comes to doing illegal drugs. Their not being forced into being AFL footballers and there are thousands of young men who would happily step up to get the opportunity to replace any current AFL players who don't want to reject illegal drugs to maintain their career in the AFL.
As for the low life who deal in drugs and profit from the import and distribution of illegal drugs I'd like to see these dealers in human misery given the same punishments as occur in Singapore, Malaysia and Indoneasia where drug trafficers are given the death penalty.

Mods can you separate this to an Alcohol and Drug thread.


As someone who works closely and has worked with people who use Drugs and Alcohol at the coalface for more than 20 years, Alcohol is and remains the biggest single worst substance in terms of negative social & health issues consequences, much much worse than illicit drug use.

[Mr Miyagi]

Alcohol and gambling, mate. One of which is still a major AFL sponsor.

[piedys]

^ I'd prefer we picked the team on form (at the time), bearing in mind that Ginnivan kicked 5 goals and received three Brownlow votes on Anzac Day 2022 in a game Collingwood won by less than two goals.

Totally, so he won't have any problems tearing it up the VFL then, leading up to Anzac Day.

There is simply no point pretending that all players are more or less equal. They aren't.

But... do you let the list know that...?

The Collingwood list has no genuine replacement for Ginnivan, irrespective of what people would like to imagine based on pre-season training.

We'll have a better idea by round three either way.

Let's just hope he knuckles down and plays (more) good football off the back of this. He is one of our most consistent and best.

And a fan fav at that; reminds me of that old adage about taking a lifetime to establish a good reputation for oneself, and only taking one incident to undo it?

It's a shame he's apparently been a bit of an idiot - but they don't ask you to take an IQ test before you shoot for goal.

Evidently you don't have to take an IQ test before working for the AFL, or the media either.

Otherwise, I simply don't understand the pile on. He's just turned 20 and been caught doing the wrong thing once.
Given the appalling way he was treated as a teenager by the media and opposing fans (and then the umpires) last season for doing no more than playing to the rules, it's surprising that his particular form of acting up was so tepid.

Thus we expect a solid resurgence from him, and stick it up the doubters, like he largely did in 2022.
And was it before or after Anzac day that the whistle maggots decided it was open season on his head?

What we need here is the most selfless individuals buying into the belief that we can take down Geebung, Melbourne, Carlton and any other challengers in 2023, and win our 16th premiership.