Thinking ahead to 2023 draft...

[Charlie Oneeye]

Still being considered is swapping salary cap for picks.

We may have some cap to spare now to gain more pick/s.


We do have Pendles/Sidey/Howe who would be on $$$, and these inevitable retirements will restore some cap flexibility post 2024.

[Uncle Jack]

Gonna be some difficult decisions at the end of the year especially if Sidey Pendles and Howe go round again. What's the minimum number of delistings that the club has to make? There's an overloaded handful of players yet to show what they're capable of at senior level and some may find themselves moved on unfairly.

[roar]

Bianco, Wilson, Kelly, Murley, Harrison would be the nervous ones.

[LaurieHolden]

Provisional 2023 AFL Draft Order (not current), but as it stands, with picks 16,29,72,90 we go into the draft with 1,739 points.
https://www.draftguru.com.au/years/2023 ... raft-order

If current ladder position stands, pick 16 becomes pick 18 (985 points) and minus another 82 points, or equivalent of a late 4th round pick.
So we don't exactly go into the draft with a strong hand.

The usual decisions loom, with a bit of cattle trading required to get up in the draft order, which beggs the question, who stays and who goes?
By the end of the 2024 season, we're likely to see a minimum of 10 and up to 20 players off those lists.

From the 2023 OOC list, I could make a case for most, but Bianco, Begg, Draper, Kelly, Murley, Wilson would all need to have a strong second half of the season to be part of a 2024 pre-season campaign.
With 669 games experience between Pendles and Sidey, well it'll be up to them. But a rolling stone gathers no moss and these two just keep rolling along. The only thing I could see stopping them going around again in '24 would be calling time on a succesful flag campaign. As it stands, they remain required players.

• Collingwood Players Out of Contract in 2023
  Name Years Service Status
  Aiden Begg 3 Non-Free Agent
  Arlo Draper 2 Non-Free Agent
  Ash Johnson 3 Non-Free Agent
  Cooper Murley 2 Non-Free Agent
  Harvey Harrison 2 Non-Free Agent
  John Noble 5 Non-Free Agent
  Josh Carmichael 2 Non-Free Agent
  Mason Cox 9 Restricted Free Agent
  Oleg Markov 1 Non-Free Agent
  Oscar Steene 1 Non-Free Agent
  Scott Pendlebury 18 Unrestricted Free Agent
  Steele Sidebottom 15 Unrestricted Free Agent
  Tom Wilson 4 Non-Free Agent
  Trent Bianco 4 Non-Free Agent
  Trey Ruscoe 4 Non-Free Agent
  Will Kelly 5 Non-Free Agent

From the 2024 OOC list, the longevity of Dean, Ginnivan, Macrae, Howe, Richards, Kreuger, McInness, Adams, WHE will undoubtedly comes under scrutiny, maybe with one of the last two likely to roll onto 1 year contract.
Of that list, only Ginnivan, Macrae and McInness are likely to retain any trade currency, maybe 3rd rounders. Considering we secured a 5 year 56 game player in Lipinski with pick 43, that might be optimistic with both having played < 10 senior games.

Collingwood Players Out of Contract in 2024 Collingwood Player Contracts
Name Years Service Status
Beau McCreery 4 Non-Free Agent
Charlie Dean 3 Non-Free Agent
Finlay Macrae 4 Non-Free Agent
Jack Ginnivan 4 Non-Free Agent
Jakob Ryan 2 Non-Free Agent
Jeremy Howe 9 Restricted Free Agent
Joe Richards 2 Non-Free Agent
Josh Daicos 8 Restricted Free Agent
Nathan Kreuger 3 Non-Free Agent
Nathan Murphy 7 Non-Free Agent
Patrick Lipinski 3 Non-Free Agent
Reef McInnes 4 Non-Free Agent
Taylor Adams 11 Unrestricted Free Agent
Will Hoskin-Elliott 8 Restricted Free Agent

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/out ... ct_players

[LaurieHolden]

Speculation on 'Tradies' where Dusty goes with Dimma and Tigers receive pick 6 from Gold Coast.
Potentially a great result for both parties.
Dusty is on $1.2m so Richmond would be keen to offload part of his contract.
To understand the mechanics of why GCS would need to offload pick 6 is covered off in the discussion. Makes for good listening for those wanting to get their heads around how the academy picks work should someone else bid for them. In effect they lose the currency on pick 6.

https://spotify.link/FSD94dYOmBb

I can't imagine G Wright isn't doing a list review as a result to get a seat at the table.
In that scenario, who would you be prepared to part with for pick 6?

There's a gun key forward in the GCS academy. They have 3 academy prospects that are all predicted to go round 1. Something will need to give.

Jack Crisp + our 2023 2nd round pick
Ginnivan + our 1st round 2024 pick
Fin Macrae + our 2023 1st round pick
Reef McInnes+ our 2023 1st round pick
Nathan Murphy + our 2023 2nd round pick
Trey Ruscoe + our 2023 1st round pick

Getting a top 10 KPF pick would give us time to develop him while the likes of McStay and Mihocek play out their careers.

[RudeBoy]

I honestly can't see us giving away Murphy or Crisp.

[Charlie Oneeye]

I think it would be plausible to carry salary cap and gain pick 6, but Dusty is 32. If he was 29 I'd do it. I can't see it.


Trey Ruscoe + our 2023 1st round pick - of course.

Trey is an excellent VFL player, and a good bottom 8 AFL player.


I'd have to look at the potential recruit to make a call on our other players.

[What'sinaname]

I honestly can't see us giving away Murphy or Crisp.

Agree on Murph but Crisp is definitely expendable if you take away the emotion.

It would also be an amazing but of trading. Getting him for next to nothing, getting 200+ games and then converting him into a top 10 draft pick.

[LaurieHolden]

I honestly can't see us giving away Murphy or Crisp.

Agree on Murph but Crisp is definitely expendable if you take away the emotion.

It would also be an amazing but of trading. Getting him for next to nothing, getting 200+ games and then converting him into a top 10 draft pick.

This is exactly the way I think we should be looking at this.
We simply don't get into the top 10 of the draft without a tough call. Yes there will be emotion with it, but we then shouldn't complain in a few years if we still haven't landed a key forward or top 10 talent.
Have you seen the emotion on the game day thread when we lose a quarter or let a side back in...imagine if we can't compete in a few years due to lack of depth! There will be howls to get rid of Hine and co because of poor list management decisions...you know it will happen. As Bomber Thomson once said "yes you, you people!!".

We've been fortunate with father sons. In the 2022 draft with Naicos, the horse trading required before in order to secure him then left us with our next pick at 45.

A few more years of top 4 finishes will soon find us with a list deficit. Freo had 2 picks inside 10 in 2021, and 3 in 2019!!
Our last top 10 pick was Jaidyn Stephenson in 2017. Prior to that JDG in 2014.

Time to to make a tough draft / trade call outside of the hubris of the onfield success we're currently experiencing.

[WhyPhilWhy?]

We have an added incentive for Carlton to blow up their "resurgence" as we have their 2nd round pick.

[inxs88]

We have all been pining for a bona fide key position player, particularly a forward and unfortunately even the top 10 range of the draft is no guarantee to be the panacea.

Remember these picks:

* Jonno Patton: pick 1
* Tom Boyd: pick 1
* Paddy McCartin: pick 1
* J. Schache: pick 2
* Sam Day: pick 3
* Fischer McAsey: pick 6
* Peter Wright: pick 9 (Gold Coast version)
* Sam Weideman: pick 9
* Zach Reid: pick 10

Combined with the fact that you look at 4th and 5th round selections of Mitch Lewis and Nick Larkey and rookie draft picks like Brody Mihocek, it leads to me to contend that similar to ruckmen, it's better to let other clubs recruit, groom and develop these baby giraffes in their 18-24 year old years, then swoop and select them for their prime years thereafter.

The trick is having the currency or salary cap space combined with the culture to achieve this. Currently we have two out of three of these things.

[LaurieHolden]

I agree, it's harder to develop a KPF from scratch and retain them. Either way, we've got to get some draft currency to get a seat at the negotiation table.
It however requries hard decisions to be made, and I think we'll need to release a few established players over the coming years, and more than likely one or two this year.
Personally, I'd still make the priority to secure emerging midfielders.
In relation to key position forwards take a Johnson, McStay and Mihocek over selling the farm for a Lynch or Cameron.

2010 - Collingwood
Total team goals: 395
Top 3 goal kickers: Alan Didak (41), Travis Cloke (38.) & Chris Dawes (30)
Top 3 contribution to total goals: 27.60%

[search]2017 - Richmond[/search]
Total team goals: 331
Top 3 goal kickers: Jack Riewoldt (54), Dustin Martin (37) & Daniel Butler (30)
Top 3 contribution to total goals: 36.56%

2018 - West Coast
Total team goals: 336
Top 3 goal kickers: Jack Darling (48.), Josh Kennedy (43) & Jamie Cripps (38.)
Top 3 contribution to total goals: 38.39%

2019 - Richmond
Total team goals: 322
Top 3 goal kickers: Tom Lynch (63), Dustin Martin (32) & Jason Castagna (27)
Top 3 contribution to total goals: 37.89%

2020 - Richmond
Total team goals: 202
Top 3 goal kickers: Jack Riewoldt (33), Tom Lynch (32) & Dustin Martin (22)
Top 3 contribution to total goals: 43.07%

2021 - Melbourne
Total team goals: 323
Top 3 goal kickers: Bayley Fritsch (59), Kysaiah Pickett (40) & Tom McDonald (33), Ben Brown (25)
Top 3 contribution to total goals: 40.87%

2022 - Geelong
Total team goals: 359
Top 3 goal kickers: Tom Hawkins (67), Jeremy Cameron (65) & Tyson Stengle (53)
Top 3 contribution to total goals: 51.53%

2022 - Collingwood
Total team goals: 303
Top 3 goal kickers: Brodie Mihocek (41), Jack Ginnivan (40) & Jamie Elliott (28.)
Top 3 contribution to total goals: 35.97%

From the above list -
Josh Kennedy #4
Tom Lynch #11
Jack Riewoldt #13
Jamie Cripps #24
Jack Darling #26
Chris Dawes #28
Travis Cloke #39
Ben Brown #47
Tom McDonald #53
Jeremy Cameron GWS underage priority list

[LaurieHolden]

Suns loaded with potentially 3 top 10 draft prospects from their academy coming through.

https://central.rookieme.com/afl/power- ... june-2023/

Likely not able to fit them all in, will be one of the more active Clubs come draft day.
Might prove a good opporunity to get into the likes of Darcy Macpherson or Elijah Hollands and lure them back to Vic. Hopefully Oleg gives the brains trust some insight to their character.

[Magpie Russ]

There's a gun key forward in the GCS academy. They have 3 academy prospects that are all predicted to go round 1. Something will need to give.

Jack Crisp + our 2023 2nd round pick
Ginnivan + our 1st round 2024 pick
Fin Macrae + our 2023 1st round pick
Reef McInnes+ our 2023 1st round pick
Nathan Murphy + our 2023 2nd round pick
Trey Ruscoe + our 2023 1st round pick

While there is no guarantee with drafting - I think it was clear that the King brother were worth the sacrifice. There are some players that exhibit the attributes. Nick, Horne-Francis. So if there is a key forward in this draft that shows all the attributes...

Then I would offer more that is described above.
Murphy, IQ, Crisp, <insert any player not in our Top 8 here> + Round 1 pick. Ruscoe and our Round 1 pick = Our Round 1 pick.

If you were to list players of the ilk of IQ, McCreery, Murphy it is a long list.
If you were to list genuine key forwards the list is shorter (that goes against my argument as well - somewhat - makes a key forward pick speculative as outlined by inxs88).

If there is a King type in the draft - then sell the hobby farm.

[LaurieHolden]

^ interesting Russ, undoubtedly we'll need to offer something like you suggest.
Although I loathe to think of letting go any AAU22 pedigree players, and that's IQ. Backmen can be replaced, and with the likes of Maynard and Crsip, we can still afford to develop some younger talent around them.

McCreery I can't see us willing to part with.

2026 contracted Crisp is someone they could use, although his Mrs is a Victorian girl, and uprooting 2 young kids to go back to QLD is likely to block that.

Might Ginni be in the mix? They lost a crowd puller in Rankine, Ginni would fit the bill as a replacement. Ginni + a 1st starts to hold currency but I reckon a 2nd round pick would also have to be added in.

At the end of the day, as you indicate 1st round picks aren't going to come our way simply by discarding our unwanted stock. We have to give to get, and GCS won't give up pick 6 easily.


Jed Walter (Palm Beach Currumbin)
08/06/2005 | 194cm | Key Forward

Having turned only turned 17 earlier in 2022, his towering 195cm, 91kg frame is sure to catch the eyes of recruiters ahead of next year’s NAB AFL Draft.

Potentially the best of the lot as far as Allies prospects go, Walter is one of the top key position talents in this year’s crop. The Suns Academy standout loves to compete and throws his well-developed frame around, offering true presence inside attacking 50. He hunts the ball and hits packs hard when leaping for marks, capping off his work with proven scoreboard impact. Walter could well be the first club-tied player to attract a bid come draft time.

https://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/news/123 ... an-honours

Another showing promise is ~
Caleb Nancarrow (Cairns City Lions/Oakleigh Chargers)
31/05/2006 | 195cm | Ruck/Forward

Another bottom-age gun out of the Suns Academy, Nancarrow offers raw talent. The spring heeled key position prospect utilises his rare athleticism both in the ruck and up forward, where his aerial range exceeds just about every opponent. There’s plenty of potential to harness and filling out to do, but Nancarrow is on the right track as part of both the Suns and Oakleigh Chargers talent programs. He’s also boarding at Scotch College in Victoria.

https://central.rookieme.com/afl/2023/0 ... s-academy/