#38 Jeremy Howe

MatthewBoydFanClub · Post by **MatthewBoydFanClub** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:19 pm

The Card Table wrote:I like this signing but I still think we could have been better served going after someone to play centre half-forward like Dixon or Sam Reid to work in tandem with Cloke similar to Buddy/Tippet. I'm not sure Moore is ready to fill this role yet and could see him doing what we've signed Howe for. I'm just concerned Howe will become another Jesse White. Hope I'm wrong!

Sam Reid has a contract and Dixon wants to go to Port. Sometimes you just can't get the players you need to come to the club. The mistake was not drafting MacCarthy or Stewart, but that's hindsight.

Wokko · Post by **Wokko** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:27 pm

Pies fan, idolized Bucks as a kid. He kept an autograph in his wallet until it fell apart.

I like the guy more and more.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/video/2 ... 9_33971241

AN_Inkling · Post by **AN_Inkling** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:29 pm

Welcome to Collingwood Jeremy Howe.

A fair trade. We weren't winners necessarily but got a fair deal.

Seedsman for 32 is fair, probably overs really.

Kennedy has little value. You can't play a third year player 4-5 games, in our situation, and expect to trade him for a 2nd rounder. I said before the deal he was worth a 3rd or 4th round pick and that's about right. Same goes for Toumpas who was a much more higher rated player than Kennedy, Dees did not get much for him (Zach Smith another example).

We lost one player who wasn't close to our best 22 (Kennedy), another who showed a bit but too easily and often would lose all form (Seedsman) for a player who's barely missed a game and finished top 10 in Melbourne's B&F the last 4 years. Howe will be a first team player for us next year, and for that reason this deal gets a tick.

John Wren · Post by **John Wren** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:30 pm

Wokko wrote:Pies fan, idolized Bucks as a kid. He kept an autograph in his wallet until it fell apart.

I like the guy more and more.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/video/2 ... 9_33971241

so, really a direct swap for seedsman.

Invigoration · Post by **Invigoration** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:34 pm

Underwhelming trade for mine.

I rated Seedsman, I definitely rated him better than pick 32. Seed v Howe is line ball for me, although I do think Howe fills a bigger need for us at the moment.

And Kennedy, faults aside, is worth more to us than 68.

I don't think we got stiffed or anything, but I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Howe flop next year and Seedsman play 22 games.

AN_Inkling · Post by **AN_Inkling** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:43 pm

That's not how you rate players when trading though. You get a bit of leeway for "potential" but basically, output counts. Seedsman has shown flashes but they have been only that and has not been able to establish a spot. Kennedy's not really ever played a game of AFL standard and barely played in 2015, the absolute best we could ever get was a 3rd round pick. Howe on the other hand has played over 20 games in all but his first year in the league and been top 10 in Melbourne's B&F in each of those years. His value is clearly higher than Seedsman's.

So it wasn't 68 for Kennedy. Part of Kennedy's value went into securing Howe as pick 32 alone was not enough. Given that Kennedy's not worth a huge amount more than 68, that's a fair deal.

Post by **Pies2016** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:47 pm

AN_Inkling wrote:Welcome to Collingwood Jeremy Howe.

A fair trade. We weren't winners necessarily but got a fair deal.

Seedsman for 32 is fair, probably overs really.

Kennedy has little value. You can't play a third year player 4-5 games, in our situation, and expect to trade him for a 2nd rounder. I said before the deal he was worth a 3rd or 4th round pick and that's about right. Same goes for Toumpas who was a much more higher rated player than Kennedy, Dees did not get much for him (Zach Smith another example).

We lost one player who wasn't close to our best 22 (Kennedy), another who showed a bit but too easily and often would lose all form (Seedsman) for a player who's barely missed a game and finished top 10 in Melbourne's B&F the last 4 years. Howe will be a first team player for us next year, and for that reason this deal gets a tick.

Good summary. Howe can also go back if needed.

I wish both Seeds and B K all the best with their new clubs. Hopefully its a win win for all parties concerned (but more of a win for the Pies )

Post by **stui magpie** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:49 pm

Pies4shaw wrote:Hine just said on SEN that the Coach plans to play Howe as a high half-forward and occasionally on the wing. I have no idea whether Howe's the man for the job or not but at least the plan is clear.

Wing forward it is

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/20 ... s-a-magpie

Piesnchess · Post by **Piesnchess** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:52 pm

Welcome my boy, and by golly, hes just gotta be better than jesse tarzan white, he could not be any damn worse, and he does take great high grabs, could be a big help to young moore too.

Domesticated_Ape · Post by **Domesticated_Ape** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:01 pm

AN_Inkling wrote:
Invigoration wrote:Underwhelming trade for mine.

I rated Seedsman, I definitely rated him better than pick 32. Seed v Howe is line ball for me, although I do think Howe fills a bigger need for us at the moment.

And Kennedy, faults aside, is worth more to us than 68.

I don't think we got stiffed or anything, but I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Howe flop next year and Seedsman play 22 games.
That's not how you rate players when trading though. You get a bit of leeway for "potential" but basically, output counts. Seedsman has shown flashes but they have been only that and has not been able to establish a spot. Kennedy's not really ever played a game of AFL standard and barely played in 2015, the absolute best we could ever get was a 3rd round pick. Howe on the other hand has played over 20 games in all but his first year in the league and been top 10 in Melbourne's B&F in each of those years. His value is clearly higher than Seedsman's.

So it wasn't 68 for Kennedy. Part of Kennedy's value went into securing Howe as pick 32 alone was not enough. Given that Kennedy's not worth a huge amount more than 68, that's a fair deal.

Howe plays for Melbourne. Seedsman has fought his way into a proper AFL side and played finals. If it's only output that matters, we shouldn't have chased Howe at all because lets face it, we're expecting him to be a much better player for us than he has been for Melbourne and that is only potentially possible. I don't understand how anyone could think Howe is worth more than Seedsman, at best they're equal, though I think Seed has shown more.

Don't compare Kennedy to Howe, one is 20, the other 25. Compare Kennedy to Toumpas. Who's shown more? At wort, they're equal, but again I rate BK higher because Toump's hips are stuffed

People should remember that I was a massive fan of the idea of bringing Howe to the club and was ok with losing Seed and BK. Now I've had a look at the deal on paper, I'm starting to have my doubts about Howe. Huge pressure on him to preform since he basically cost us 2 players. Would have preferred to just pay his worth and give him an easier run with the "supporters".

Wish I had a warmer welcome for him, but it is what it is.

thompsoc · Post by **thompsoc** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:06 pm

magpieazza wrote:If this is true we are getting ripped off !!!

I mean that sincerely.

Essentially we get Howe for Kennedy and Seedsman, no f arking way!!!

I thought it read that we would get pick 32 as well, but apparently not....

Don't care about 68 UNLESS that is the difference between us getting Aish.

Another Hine special... hahaha
I liked Kennedy but his disposal was not good.
So 3 years of development in BenKen and an anzac medal
winner for one average player.
Good one Hinzzy.

Post by **Pies4shaw** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:07 pm

He cost us two reserves players. Neither of them could break into a side that couldn't get a kick in the second half of the season.

Johnno75 · Post by **Johnno75** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:07 pm

With Elliot and now Howe it's going to be exciting going to Collingwwod games now. Can't wait.

1 down, 2 to go.

MightyMagpie · Post by **MightyMagpie** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:10 pm

Been working and just caught up with the trade news.

I'm overwrought with ambivalence.

AN_Inkling · Post by **AN_Inkling** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:12 pm

Domesticated_Ape wrote:
AN_Inkling wrote:
Invigoration wrote:Underwhelming trade for mine.

I rated Seedsman, I definitely rated him better than pick 32. Seed v Howe is line ball for me, although I do think Howe fills a bigger need for us at the moment.

And Kennedy, faults aside, is worth more to us than 68.

I don't think we got stiffed or anything, but I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Howe flop next year and Seedsman play 22 games.
That's not how you rate players when trading though. You get a bit of leeway for "potential" but basically, output counts. Seedsman has shown flashes but they have been only that and has not been able to establish a spot. Kennedy's not really ever played a game of AFL standard and barely played in 2015, the absolute best we could ever get was a 3rd round pick. Howe on the other hand has played over 20 games in all but his first year in the league and been top 10 in Melbourne's B&F in each of those years. His value is clearly higher than Seedsman's.

So it wasn't 68 for Kennedy. Part of Kennedy's value went into securing Howe as pick 32 alone was not enough. Given that Kennedy's not worth a huge amount more than 68, that's a fair deal.
Howe plays for Melbourne. Seedsman has fought his way into a proper AFL side and played finals. If it's only output that matters, we shouldn't have chased Howe at all because lets face it, we're expecting him to be a much better player for us than he has been for Melbourne and that is only potentially possible. I don't understand how anyone could think Howe is worth more than Seedsman, at best they're equal, though I think Seed has shown more.

Don't compare Kennedy to Howe, one is 20, the other 25. Compare Kennedy to Toumpas. Who's shown more? At wort, they're equal, but again I rate BK higher because Toump's hips are stuffed

People should remember that I was a massive fan of the idea of bringing Howe to the club and was ok with losing Seed and BK. Now I've had a look at the deal on paper, I'm starting to have my doubts about Howe. Huge pressure on him to preform since he basically cost us 2 players. Would have preferred to just pay his worth and give him an easier run with the "supporters".

Wish I had a warmer welcome for him, but it is what it is.

I wasn't comparing Kennedy to Howe I was rating his output, and it's very poor. You'll notice that Toumpas was traded for not much, that's about where Kennedy's value was too, though Toumpas gets more of a premium for being such a high pick originally. Both have shown little to nothing at AFL level. We never had a leg to stand on in trading Kennedy. We can say we like the boy, but how do we respond to the question of "why did he only 5 games in a largely injury free year?". There was no way to convince Melbourne that we valued him above a third round pick.

Howe does have more value than Seedsman. He's played 100 games in 5 years, Seedsman has played 49 in 4. It's Seedsman who is being signed more on potential than output. If he puts it together and performs consistently and adds a bit more toughness he'll become a player. In his time at Collingwood he was not able to do that. Howe has shown to be an AFL player. We know what he can do. Sure there's hope that he may be able to improve with a move to another club, but that's not being relied on for him to be a handy player for us.

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#38 Jeremy Howe