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David wrote:Might have to wait for a reliable source before giving that one any credence. I'd take anything from Sputnik with a grain of salt.
Granted, Sputnik is a mouthpiece of the Russian state, just as NY Times, WSJ, Washington Post, CNN, ...are mouthpieces of US propaganda. Given the unprecedented US military buildup in the Red Sea since October 7 of amphibious warships and Marines, along with guided missile destroyers, it is clear the US is preparing itself for intervention sooner rather than later. Moreover, the Israeli and US governments are already in discussions about the future deployment of US troops to Gaza as part of a multinational occupation force once Israel has finished off its ethnic cleansing and genocide (reported by Bloombergs). Naturally, such an occupation force would be totally dominated by the US government.
So the possiblity of US troops already being on the ground alongside IDF troops in Gaza is totally within the realms of possiblity, and corresponds to the objective trajectory of events. Watch this space.
The nuanced view of American actions lies in the way the decision-making is ultimately being controlled by groups far smaller than a majority. Biden's instinct from my reading is not to go all in on this at all, while he knows Nutteryahoo is a fruitcake, but the other side of the aisle and the spectre of Trump means the crazies get to carry the day.
This is how a minority of crazies can bring low the whole. As I keep saying and I think data keeps confirming: 20% of crazies in the present political context, with the way media algorithms and faux both-sides news works, is enough to wreck the whole.
A clumsy reading of 'America' would lump everyone in together, with Biden at their head, but it's clear to me he's not the only one with great reservations but little choice.
The original sin here is granting leverage to that 20% through manufactured both-sides reporting which uplifts that 20% of crazies to a 50% share of air time and equal validity, which given their deranged motivation, ends up amounting to 70% of everything that hits peoples eyes and ears.
So, even when the majority is sensible (and in many technical areas it's really dumb, but this is not a technical problem), the US can't even benefit from the 'wisdom of the crowd'.
One of the key aspects of leadership intelligence is knowing when and in what areas crowds are likely to be right, and when and in what areas specialists are likely to be right. Model them both as a whole by respecting their strengths and limits, and you can come to smart decisions.
But in this case, the 20% of crazies aren't even specialists in anything (unlike, say, the minority underwriting the scientific consensus on global warming), yet they're still controlling outcomes.
To channel Orwell's Animal Farm: If you fall prey to their early pretence of sanity, and don't act firmly when the pigs start taking power, the pigs will win because everyone else is too sane to jump into the filth with them until it's too late. And they know it. Think Iraq, global warming, Brexit, Trump, etc.
Last edited by pietillidie on Fri Nov 03, 2023 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
^It depends how hard Israel's allies push the issue behind closed doors. Netanyahu is using the process I mention in the post above, where the crazies control public opinion, to trap Biden and others (including UK and Australian politicians), into being unable to oppose him publicly.
The bloke is a slime bag like Trump, so they'll have to earn their money to force him to pull his head in. Internal Israeli opposition will be crucial, too, as he is hated by a good deal of his own country, and blamed for this happening on his watch as he was causing political chaos before this happened, distracting the country and riling enemies, and already should've been in jail for corruption.
The problem is, the fact he is being blamed for a massive security failure, but has a fake tough man reputation, means he will go even crazier and create more chaos so that by the time people can think clearly, the moment to blame him has passed.
This is how these malignant narcissists, such as him and Trump, work. Nothing else matters except them 'winning'. Nothing. And they pass that disease on to their crazy cult. The difference between a malignant narcissist and psychopath is almost nothing in the end; corner them or oppose them, and they behave exactly as psychopaths. Dead children and global chaos mean absolutely nothing to them unless you worship and adore them, and tell them they're the greatest.
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that these kinds of ba$tards and their cults are the greatest threat and challenge of our times bar none, which is why I crap on about them so much.
Edits: I thought you'd all be in bed by now so I was editing on the fly!
Last edited by pietillidie on Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
think positive wrote:So how does this end? And will it happen again? What could stop the cycle?
For international support (and particularly that of the US and other allies like Australia) to be made conditional on Israel respecting human rights and adhering to international law. If they don’t, they should face sanctions.
Meanwhile, any serious move forward to Palestinian independence and against the illegal settlements will reduce support for Hamas and give the moderates more prospects of success.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
think positive wrote:So how does this end? And will it happen again? What could stop the cycle?
For international support (and particularly that of the US and other allies like Australia) to be made conditional on Israel respecting human rights and adhering to international law. If they don’t, they should face sanctions.
Meanwhile, any serious move forward to Palestinian independence and against the illegal settlements will reduce support for Hamas and give the moderates more prospects of success.
This is the most logical outcome for some sort of resolution to this seemingly never ending conflict.
Both sides need to give up something that they wouldn’t necessarily want to for something like this to happen.
Also, Hamas needs to either dissolve or accept that Israel has a right to exist.
It's tolerably clear that Netanyahu has, over a long period of time, favoured supporting Hamas over the more moderate Palestinian Authority because that suits his trenchant opposition to a two-state solution. If you want to run a proper genocide, it's really good to have a genuine terrorist threat that needs wiping out because they also deny your right to exist. What you most certainly don't want is an opposition that acts reasonably and wants to negotiate a genuine two-state settlement.
The civilians on both sides are victims of stupid political games. Sadly, the recent atrocities against Israelis and against Paelstinians were both enabled (if not, perhaps, in the case of the Israeli victims deliberately intended) by Netanyahu's political strategy.
That's the problem with playing with fire - sometimes you burn your own hands.
Hamas is still directly responsible for the awful things it has done, just as the Israeli Government is responsible for the awful things it has done. Ultimately, though, this is the end game of the Israeli leader's political strategy over decades.
In particular, it is important to understand that the Palestinian Authority repeatedly tried to impose sanctions against Hamas. Those sanctions were deliberately undone by Israel - which funnelled the money the Palestinian Authority cut off from Hamas back to Hamas by taking it away from the Palestinian Authority on the pretext of directly funding "humanitarian groups". Yes, it's beyond cynical and it does smack of silly conspiracy - but it's well-documented and self-evidently true.
^Yeah, that has gotten lost in between the flare ups that capture our attention every five years, but it's great to see it being underscored and brought the fore. The incursion not only happened on his watch, but he's the one who strengthened Hamas' hand for his own end.
I'm not sure how exaggerated that is, but we all know opposing extremists are ultimately co-dependents. I'm still hesitant to go all in on it without detailed research, but here's a sample of the claims:
On March 12, 2019, Netanyahu defended the Hamas payments to his Likud Party caucus on the grounds that they weakened the pro-Oslo Palestinian Authority, according to the Jerusalem Post:
"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel's regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday's Likud faction meeting said," the Post reported.
"The prime minister also said that 'whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for' transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state."
Some aspects sound far-fetched, but it does seem widely understood that he's used Hamas to keep Gaza and the West Bank, and therefore Palestinians, divided. The whole thing is reminisce of the CIA funding and training various jihadi groups who later turned on them.
think positive wrote:So how does this end? And will it happen again? What could stop the cycle?
For international support (and particularly that of the US and other allies like Australia) to be made conditional on Israel respecting human rights and adhering to international law. If they don’t, they should face sanctions.
Meanwhile, any serious move forward to Palestinian independence and against the illegal settlements will reduce support for Hamas and give the moderates more prospects of success.
all of that is more than reasonable.
after just going through the pics from the last few days - Israel needs to face justice, and i dont care who started it, thats plain outright 1st degree murder.
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Pies4shaw wrote:It's tolerably clear that Netanyahu has, over a long period of time, favoured supporting Hamas over the more moderate Palestinian Authority because that suits his trenchant opposition to a two-state solution. If you want to run a proper genocide, it's really good to have a genuine terrorist threat that needs wiping out because they also deny your right to exist. What you most certainly don't want is an opposition that acts reasonably and wants to negotiate a genuine two-state settlement.
The civilians on both sides are victims of stupid political games. Sadly, the recent atrocities against Israelis and against Paelstinians were both enabled (if not, perhaps, in the case of the Israeli victims deliberately intended) by Netanyahu's political strategy.
That's the problem with playing with fire - sometimes you burn your own hands.
Hamas is still directly responsible for the awful things it has done, just as the Israeli Government is responsible for the awful things it has done. Ultimately, though, this is the end game of the Israeli leader's political strategy over decades.
In particular, it is important to understand that the Palestinian Authority repeatedly tried to impose sanctions against Hamas. Those sanctions were deliberately undone by Israel - which funnelled the money the Palestinian Authority cut off from Hamas back to Hamas by taking it away from the Palestinian Authority on the pretext of directly funding "humanitarian groups". Yes, it's beyond cynical and it does smack of silly conspiracy - but it's well-documented and self-evidently true.
Thanks for posting that, I wasn't aware of that but it makes perfect sense.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
Listening to the radio this morning and the condemnation of Penny Wong not taking sides got to me. We have to be diplomatic and choosing sides isn't about diplomacy, being balanced is. Then there were reports saying the death reports of 8000 were made up. Like let's be really conservative and say it's 2000 dead, that is 5 plane loads of people. If 5 planes crashed and 2000 people died we would be up arms. Then we had people complaining about the dollars the Melb City Council is going to spend over NYE whilst people are dying (First World Problems). I know, I should not have turned on the radio. Silly Me.
The NY Times has reported that US commandos are on the ground in Gaza. In other words, not only is the US government arming the Israeli war machine, it is actively involved on the battle field.
It is time now to acknowledge that the "two state solution", as bankrupt as it always was, has now been superseded by a new solution. The new solution is the US-Israel "Final Solution" for Palestine: annihilate a huge portion of the Palestinian population through genocide, then drive whoever survives out of Gaza, into concentration camps policed by the Egyptian government in the Sinai, or (for the lucky ones) to find a country willing to accept them as refugees.
Last edited by Magpietothemax on Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Israel has struck the Jamaliya refugee camp for a second time. There are now 195 confirmed dead and 120 unaccounted for due to the Israeli bombardments of this refugee camp.
It is obvious that the Israeli government is now operating without fear in a fascist policy of ethnic cleansing and unrestrained war crimes.
It can only do so because the US government has given it carte blanche. Senator Lindsay Graham publicly declared that there is "no limit" to the number of civilian deaths in Gaza that the United States is willing to tolerate. A Pentagon spokesman endorsed Isreal's attack on the refugee camp by repeating the propaganda of the IDF: that Hams is using civilians as "human shields", and hence targeting innocent refugees is ok.
The war in Gaza is not just a war of Israel against the Palestinians. It is the war of the US and Israel as its proxy to take forward its longstanding plans to dominate the Middle East. Iran is the next target of the US-Israel behemoth.
Moreover, the other Western governments (France, Germany, Britain, Italy, Australia) are likewise complicit, with their continued justifications for Israeli war crimes, and attempts to ban pro-Palestinian protests with the disgusting lie that they are "anti-semitic".
Culprit wrote:Listening to the radio this morning and the condemnation of Penny Wong not taking sides got to me. We have to be diplomatic and choosing sides isn't about diplomacy, being balanced is. Then there were reports saying the death reports of 8000 were made up. Like let's be really conservative and say it's 2000 dead, that is 5 plane loads of people. If 5 planes crashed and 2000 people died we would be up arms. Then we had people complaining about the dollars the Melb City Council is going to spend over NYE whilst people are dying (First World Problems). I know, I should not have turned on the radio. Silly Me.
You clearly turned the radio on the AM dial. Stick with MMM, enjoy the music.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
