Collingwood send clear-cut message after double draft coup

[Said by Zed]

Don’t mean to be too harsh but it appears some of you get it, some of you don’t, some of you never will, and some just don’t know what the fudge is going on. Along the same vane of not just being a follower, someone very astute and learned once said “Blind belief in anything is the greatest enemy of truth” (Einstein).

For those that believe list management via the draft is founded purely on luck you’re sadly mistaken, misinformed, or simply more delusional than you know. Heck, even poker as some of you raised earlier (pun intended) is in NO WAY a game of luck for professionals…instead sustained success relies on knowledge, experience, science, mathematics, probability theory, risk analysis, and psychology.

In my initial post I clearly expressed my support of the CFC recruitment/coaching/system, based primarily on recent events. I then went on to call out the 1 tonne elephant in the room…we lack key position depth and big bullocking mids.

Now some single finger typing keyboard warrior on here might be quick to shoot me down with “well we won a bloody premiership” or the classic “musta done something right, eh?”, their argument based entirely on the ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ premise. To them I say correlation does not always imply causation. The fact our style ended up winning us a flag

[Pies4shaw]

[quote="Pies2016"]^^^
That’s generally true but some clubs continue to do it better than others. How else could you explain clubs like Carlton and Essendon being inept for so long, despite drawing better draft hands than most for the last 20 years.
It’s a bit like Phil Ivey or Daniel Negreanu playing at the same table as Joe Hasham in the World Series of Poker. You just know the longer it goes, which stacks are likely to grow and which one will diminish.

[RudeBoy]

No need to be so defensive Zed. You've made your case and some will agree and others will disagree. In truth, we'll really only know in a few years whether our recent drafting has been successful or not.

Fwiw, I'm not as convinced as some that we urgently need some big bodied KPPs. These positions, like rucks, can more often than not be covered by the mid season draft or via free agency. I'm more concerned at the looming decline/retirements of Pendles, Sidey and Mitchell. We desperately need to find/develop some potential A grade midfielders. On that score, it seems to me that our recruiters are doing their best. Hopefully a couple of players out of MaCrae, Allan, Harrison, McInnis and DeMattia really step up and provide the quality midfield depth we need to support JDG, Nick and Josh Daicos. Of course McCreery may move into the midfield too.

[The Black and White Lion]

The tricky thing that comes with being successful over a sustained period with relatively few injuries is that you get consistency across your best 22 and limited opportunities to develop new and younger players, similarly for players in different positions. it really requires the coaches to be bold and experienced players to be unselfish to let the young guys through. And yet if you get a bunch of injuries and or top players retire, the young and inexperienced players get a turn and performance goes down.

Age old problem and so the cycle goes.

Fascinated to see how the coaches approach this problem over the preseason through 2024, particularly if they choose to blood the youth in a sustained manner or if they continue with the proven reliable performance of the last 18months and only parachute players in due to injury.

We will see how Fly Wright really do value the young guns and which ones if Pendles, Sidey, Howe, WHE, Crispy, Checkers, Titch and anyone else 30+ are fit and continue to perform their way

[Ronnie McKeowns boots]

Arie Schoenmakers went very late, anyone heard why? Seems like the recruiters knew something we don't....

[lazzadesilva]

So, as another pop culture luminary also said “Blind faith in your leaders, or anything, will get you killed, man”, instead of just trying to ‘cancel’ and shut down the free thought of us who approach things with a winners mentality and choose to shake the status quo, maybe broaden your perspective a little. If you don’t have a unique thought of your own that’s okay but don’t simply exist to criticise the view of others…you’re better than that.

Thank you for sharing this with us. Not sure that too many here have survived simply existing to only criticise the view of others as over the years, they haven’t been allowed to do so as many genuine posters (including me) have confronted and challenged their purpose of being here. However no one is totally immune from criticism nor should they be. The issue is not the criticism itself but the supposed justification for it. If posters feel that it is not necessary, justified, appropriate or acceptable, they should always express their opinion.

[Born to Pie]

[The Black and White Lion]

[quote="Born to Pie" Whose draft profile is this? (clue 2021 draft)]

Don't tell me this is Arlo Draper? Where is he now.

Speaking of Arlo they talked up his younger brother ahead of the 2023 draft too and he didn't even get a mention on draft night. Some players peak as teenagers and just don't make it at senior level.

[Pies2016]

[quote="Born to Pie" Whose draft profile is this? (clue 2021 draft)]

Don't tell me this is Arlo Draper? Where is he now.

Speaking of Arlo they talked up his younger brother ahead of the 2023 draft too and he didn't even get a mention on draft night. Some players peak as teenagers and just don't make it at senior level.

[/quote]

Yes, it will be Arlo. His younger brother Sid wasn’t eligible this year as a bottom ager. He’s a fine talent and made the all Australian U18 team as a first year player and that’s not easy. Will easily be top 10 in next years draft.

[Born to Pie]

Don't tell me this is Arlo Draper? Where is he now.

Speaking of Arlo they talked up his younger brother ahead of the 2023 draft too and he didn't even get a mention on draft night. Some players peak as teenagers and just don't make it at senior level.

You win the cigar, and that's the point isn't it, read the profile = superstar, as you say where is he now 2 years later.

We have to accept that we will win some and lose some in the draft process.

[Charlie Oneeye]

Draper just flat-lined. (pick 45)

Cooper Murley never looked like it (Pick 49)

Covid had interrupted footy. That was an issue in 2021.

Harrison (Pick 52) could be the 1 out of 3

But what was the Joe Richards selection (pick 48 ) in 22?

---

We didn't go past second pick this year, preferring instead to use the SSP and mid season draft clearly to try and improve our odds of success.
I guess this applies especially for leftover talls, who would have been the dregs in their draft year.

[Presti35]

I wanted A.Reid too. But I'm happy with the 2 we've taken.

Are either ready to play straight away? Thats the question. The lad that fell way down the board at went to Freo (Murphy) was tainted as a top key position tallant, but wont be ready for AFL action for some time.

Every year I do some research and make a list in order of preference and other players that i'll be interested to see where they go. This year (with limited time admittedly) my list was; Reid, Murphy, Schoenmaker, Morris, Jiath, Lual. And I was interested in where the two Werribee lads would end up.

The gap between Murphy and Lual wasnt massive, but I did want Archer Reid. I can understand why Murphy slipped, but was still surprised he fell that far.

[Big T]

What’s the general feeling of our three addition,s

We absolutely still need to recruit a tall forward who kicks goals reliably.

Am staggered we ignored a couple in the draft

[warburton lad]

Am staggered we ignored a couple in the draft...

I agree, it is somewhat curious however, consider the following:

* we have McStay, Mihocek, Ash Johnson, McInnes, Kreuger, Steene and Begg on the list as serviceable, or potentially serviceable, key forward types
* Cox and Cameron occasionally drift forward as 'Tall' targets inside 50..
* Brynn Teakle (204cms and 102kgs) is training with the Pies with a view to being selected as a SSP prior to next season- he comes to us with no prior form to suggest that he will be a boom forward, but who knows how much improvement he has in him- remembering that he comes to a club where there is a great development system in place.
* there are significant murmurings that a key forward 197 cos and 91 kgs, is being courted from another club (his name rhymes with Jamara Ugle-Hagen) for 2025 season.
* the coaching and recruiting staff have placed a very high premium on pace and the capacity to tackle and apply pressure at ground level- this is why Di Mattia and Tew Jath were referenced, I would imagine.

Having said all that, I would have loved to have seen the Pies draft Archer Reid or Ollie Murphy..

I would love to be in the room that first selection night in 2024 and hear what is being said about the potential for McStay, Johnson, McInnes and Kreuger to break into the Premiership-winning 23.

Given a fair run with injuries, our VFL team will be mighty hard to beat in 2024- that is always a good indicator of depth and future prospects for the AFL team...

[LaurieHolden]

I don't think for a moment a team of Hine and Wright have 'ignored' key position players.
If they don't think it's worth putting 5 years of development into a player that comes from outside the top 20 of the draft, where after 40 drafts, the average games is < 50, then so be it.
Across all picks, in 40 drafts the average games played is 56.

Another question might be, over the past decade, how many A grade quality (All Australians) KPF or KPD have we missed? And do we think we're the only Club that is searching?

Let's look at another draftee, Schoenmaker who crashed to pick 62. There were plenty of calls for us to pull off a 'draft coup' to secure his services. A bit of digging will reveal why, the lads character has been found out. That's before we even know if he can cut it in the AFL.

So, let's cut the selectors some slack. This is not Tinder for draft picks, a one page bio and a few glossy pictures doesn't make a match made in heaven.
We're supporters, not recruiters. The only thing we possess is the ability to identify we are lacking an AA 6'5 KPF or KPB in a Premiership side that does not possess one of these.

The top goal-kickers in the 2020's that have kicked +200 goals = one, Tom Hawkins, a father son selection.
Of the top 10 goal kickers in the 2020's, 4 have won flags, 3 measuring taller than 195cm.

We're chasing the proverbial white whale.