Grand Final #10 - 1970

[warburton lad]

Mr Piesnchess- Carman only had to boot one behind and there would have been no replay...

My 'Sliding Doors' scenario with Carman is as follows:

Carman plays centre half forward (and dominates) in the 1970 Grand Final and the Pies win by 66 points.

In 1971, with Carman at centre half forward and Greening and Tuddenham on the flanks, we win two extra games and finish second behind Hawthorn.
In a bruising Grand Final, the Pies prevail by 9 points on the back of 5 goals from both McKenna and Carman.

In 1972, Tuddenham (having played in consecutive flags for the Pies) rebuffs Essendon Captain-Coach role and remains at Collingwood. When the Pies play St Kilda at Moorabbin on that fateful July day, O'Dea leaves Greening alone in fear of Tuddy and Carman.
Greening wins the Brownlow (from Len Thompson) and the Pies make it three flags in a row with a win over Richmond by 17 points.

Hard to say what may have happened after 1972 but that half-forward line of Greening, Carman and Tuddenham would have put the fear of God into opposition backlines who would have also had to contend with Peter McKenna, Ross Dunne and one of the resting rovers (Wayne Richardson or Ronnie Wearmouth).

Assuming the Pies won in 1973, it would have put a whole new slant on the 10 Year rule where players could swap clubs without a clearance: We got George Bissett (Footscray) and John Williams (Essendon) but, imagine if we were going for 5 flags in a row??? Would John Rantall, Barry Davis, Carl Ditterich, Doug Wade or Gareth Andrews have considered joining the Pies in the quest for five in a row??

Such is life...

[Harrysz]

Lad, you're really into Carman aren't you. You could write a whole book on the history of Collingwood and fill it up with ifs and buts. We can all prognosticate about what could have been and what should have been. You can't change the past but Craig McRae and Graham Wright can certainly change the present and the future and I'm excited by that.

[warburton lad]

Perhaps I am fixated on the Carman story, but in my view, the two 'events' that determined our 1970's results were the non-arrival of Carman in 1970 when he was zoned to us, but went to Norwood and the 'assassination' of John Greening at Moorabbin in July 1972.

Imagine the season results for 1972-1980 inclusive had both men been available for the Pies.(Case in point being 1974 when we finished two games off top spot- is anyone arguing that if Carman and Greening had been playing for the Pies- and Tuddy not Captain-coaching Essendon, we would not have finished on top??).

I would suggest we would have won, or at least have had a significantly better chance of winning flags in: 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1977, 1978 and 1979...

[Boot]

^

Warburton Lad - I love your alternative universe / sliding doors moment, and at age of 20 in Sept 1970 Fabulous Phil Carman could have been a good footballer but he was a late maturer so the reality is that he may not have had the maturity to play senior footy at that time. Still it would have been a nice option to have a forward line of Greening, Carman, Tuddy, McKenna, Thompson and Wearmouth.

[Kingsofclutch]

Stars are cursed at Collingwood Rose Waters Thompson McKenna Tuddenham Greening Buckley

[Harrysz]

It would've been nice to have Carman play in the 1977 Grand Final. There would've been no need for a replay. Back to the 1970 Grand Final though, there were many reasons why we lost this one but missing players wasn't one of them.

[lazzadesilva]

^
And the other ones that rankles me are not recruiting Tony Locket and Bernie Quinlan, the former was not recruited because the then Committee member Wayne Richardson wanted his son Mark Richardson to play the position.
If we didn’t play silly buggers with John Kennedy Snr. who was interested in coaching Collingwood, our flag total would have increased. And the other ones that rankles me are not recruiting Tony Locket and Bernie Quinlan.

[Harrysz]

Ted Hopkins died this week. He played a total of 29 games and only 1 after the 1970 Grand Final. His epic contribution in that game is etched into Australian Football folk law. Unfortunately it was against Collingwood.

[Kingsofclutch]

Ted Hopkins died this week. He played a total of 29 games and only 1 after the 1970 Grand Final. His epic contribution in that game is etched into Australian Football folk law. Unfortunately it was against Collingwood.

He retired to the country to write poetry last I heard of him, the ultimate super sub.