Grand Final #13- 1977 Replay

[piedys]

^ So that we appreciate the enormity of that choke in the draw, one has to understand the context.
At 3/4 time, Collingwood was 27 points up against a side that had kicked just 4 goals in 3 quarters and hadn't goaled for about 70 minutes of playing time.
Collingwood outscored North 8.11 to 0.11 in the second and third quarters.

Yes, it was a shame Carman didn't play - but it was an even greater shame that Hafey pointed the blowtorch at Carman, rather than at the 20 guys who didn't get it done in the first 1977 Grand Final.
I think it softened the blow too much and let people off the hook when they should have shouldered responsibility for an occasion of abject failure.

Really, it shouldn't have been too much for the 20 players there that day to get the job done.
This was in the days when only the top team got the week's rest - twice, in our case (while 2nd played 3rd and then while the loser of the second-semi played the winner of the first semi to see who would have a crack at us in the Grand Final).
That final 5 system favoured the team that finished top so much that there was constant whingeing. Yet, even with that unfair advantage, they still rolled over to North in the last quarter.

Pies4shaw old son, this brings back the memory of our discussion from 2012:

That's a creative call - 2 flags! I've spent the last 35 years shaking my head in disbelief at the laughable suggestion that Phil "cost" Collingwood the 1977 flag -
when the 'Pies were almost 5 goals in front of a team which had scored 4 for the entire day at three-quarter time and he wasn't even on the ground when the rest of the team decided to wobble in public.
But - at this late date - I expect that garbage to be trotted out every time his name is managed. Or, perhaps, some other year after he'd left Collingwood?

Mate, yours is the first opinion i've EVER read who doesn't hold Carmen accountable for 1977 draw, and subsequent loss.
We blame the club for releasing him for 1979, and not securing Quinlan to replace him.

Dyso

Dyso, I completely understand that I am in the minority (perhaps even a minority of 1?) about this. However, my point is not that Phil's absence wasn't the result of a stupid act. It clearly was.

My concern has always been that the Club allowed responsibility for the loss to be deflected onto Carman.
That game should never have been drawn. 27 points in front at the last change - and North hadn't kicked a goal for more than an hour of football.
It takes a special effort not to win a game when you lead by almost 5 goals at the last change and the other team only scores 5 (and you score 1) in the final act.

IMO, the players who returned that miserable result should have been asked to take responsibility for it themselves - not given the easy out of blaming a player who did not participate.

As for Phil's replacement, Hafey wanted Edwards and got him. And Brewer. And Craig Davis. It's not like the Club was stuck with the recruiting problems of the present day.

and from 2016:

A very dynamic and brilliant but totally erratic player, he cost us the 1977 flag for his ludicrous hitting of Tuck right in front of the umpire.
Tom Hafey never really forgave him for that, he definitely would have made a huge difference in that GF, we would have bolted the drawn one in for sure.

Both he and Hafey can share the blame equally for 1977.
Hafey should have told him pre-game to keep his fists down, and temper his anger until we made the GF, then do as he pleases to win us the premiership.

Plus Hafey's idiotic military pre grand final training sessions from 1979-1981 also drove our blokes to exhaustion. 1979 & 1981 were lost opportunities.

Dunno mate, in 77 we were around 27 points up at three quarter time, had the Fab one played we would have been 47 points up, and uncatchable.
I don't see how Hafey could have done that to him, Tommy had no idea the fool would spit the dummy and deck Tuck right in front of the ump, NO coach would think a seasoned player would be THAT dumb and silly.

All of the above were the variables at play that let the 1977 cup slip through our hands; no matter which way you see it - it all comes back to the belligerent egos of Hafey and Carman

[lazzadesilva]

^^^^

Reply to the post from Bruce Gonsalves.

Exactly my point. We were well and truly owned and boned by the VFL. Collingwood’s lack of a back bone and the inability to stand up to the VFL really cost the club another flag. We needed an administration to stick it up them and do everything possible to make sure that we were right about the suspension being only for two weeks which included one grand final.

[Pies4shaw]

Pies4shaw old son, this brings back the memory of our discussion from 2012....

There you go - at least I said the same thing then as now.