Gaps in our current list

[Haff]

McStay stays fit which releases Checkers. Schultz will kick 50+. Fwd line is probably sorted.

Murphy may be one more knock from being done so another intercepting backman. Frampton wont be that answer, more in the Presti mould. Infact Howe doesnt have long left so probably the right time to bolster that position.

Whilst our midfield got it done, there were times in the second half of the season the were beaten badly. Sure that was without Daicos but I reckon we still need a beast in there. Not convinced it will be Mcreery.

[Geek]

Whilst I understand the allure of a genuine marking tall FF I have a couple of cautionary memories that - to me at least - proves they aren't the cure all many think they are. We need to recruit talls indeed but we don't need a Macca, Gazza or Huddo.

1970 half way through the 2nd Q of the GF and Macca has the Bluz literally on the ropes and flopping around like a cck in a sock with 4 on the board before half time when Tuddy cleans him up. Lost the GF - all the talk about the brilliance of Barassi is just utter trash. Macca plays the full game and we win it in a canter.

1989 GF and the greatest performance by a full forward in a GF on record - Garry Ablett Snr 9 goals - just isn't enough and the Hawks roll them.

What's my concern then?

Great full forwards draw the ball - that's just natural.

Just as natural is the coach building his game plan around that forward.

Wonderful unless you have that forward injured enough to have to be taken from the field or if the opposition scores just a little more.

In a nutshell it gives you great scoring power but it just cuts out so many options for scoring.

One of my old drinking buddies is a Carlton tragic. I used to love telling him that Fev was half their problem. Every single entry they could conjure up went to him. No wonder he kicked 100 a season. Oh wait...

Hahahah

Anyway, you're right. Having a single focal point just focuses everything, making you predictable. If you've got a freak that can handle and beat all that, then fine but you still have the single point of failure to deal with. It's why Curnow/McKay has been bothering me. Thankfully it hasn't worked for them yet. But Hawkins/Cameron and even Daniher/Hipwood make for 1-2 punches that can split defences and spread the risk of one of them having a 'mare. Naughton/JUH look like being the same.

I don't have a problem with us getting a marque KPF while we have Mihocek or McStay floating around as well. Yeah the big forward might attract a lot of ball and defensive attention, but ignore those other guys and they could easily kick 4 or more.

[Geek]

As to the topic, you'd think any list planning is being done within the context of "The Daicos Era" and how that's supposed to pan out.

We've already been 'up' since mid 2018, with only the 1 missed year of finals in 2021. Pretty much 5.5 years in already. Assuming Nick at least plays on for another 12 or 13 years, how are we going to ensure he is supported by a squad containing enough top shelf talent? As above with key forwards, if you only have the one brilliant mid, you are pretty easy to shut down, see Carlton and Judd, Collingwood and Buckley (in the late 90s at least).

Can we go 18 years without bottoming out and still remain a premiership threat at the end of it? If not, how do we go about ensuring we bottom out in the right years?

[piffdog]

As to the topic, you'd think any list planning is being done within the context of "The Daicos Era" and how that's supposed to pan out.

We've already been 'up' since mid 2018, with only the 1 missed year of finals in 2021. Pretty much 5.5 years in already. Assuming Nick at least plays on for another 12 or 13 years, how are we going to ensure he is supported by a squad containing enough top shelf talent? As above with key forwards, if you only have the one brilliant mid, you are pretty easy to shut down, see Carlton and Judd, Collingwood and Buckley (in the late 90s at least).

Can we go 18 years without bottoming out and still remain a premiership threat at the end of it? If not, how do we go about ensuring we bottom out in the right years?

Regardless of what you think of them, Geelong and Sydney have done a pretty good job of not bottoming out.

I think your concerns are overblown. We’ve got flags to win in the next 2-3 years and that needs to be a priority IMO.

[LaurieHolden]

Graham Wright comes across as one who plays his cards close to his chest, but if he has ever done a comprehensive interview on his list management philosophies, I'd love to hear it. Either way, it's going to make a great read at the end of his career.
What a blessing to have his and the good Ned's (Kelly not Guy) experience in player management to guide us through this phase.

It is all too apparent we went into the trade period to get players that irrespective if we had won or lost, that could have claimed a spot and strengthen our '23 Premiership side, as well as fitting our age requirements (read: Phasing out our Plus 30's smartly)
In Shultz, he clearly fills those requirements.
With Adams, his career beyond '24 was uncertain. Both he and the Club knew this, and as a result the trade was as seamless as any that we have completed in the past decade for a contracted player, let alone one with his Collingwood pedigree.

We still go into the 2023 draft with our 1st pick, without materially trading away our draft capital or placing additional strain on our salary cap. All going well, we find a 100 game + project player, but with history as a guide, the likelihood of this becomes non-exponentially past pick 12.
Refer https://www.draftguru.com.au/picks

The balance of picks we can use for rookie upgrades or preferably the MSD and attempt to jag another Hine special.

One thing we'll be looking for is who will be the season 2024 bolter from the players that didn't earn a call-up to play in the GF. That no doubt will be covered off in another thread.

Everything's coming up Pies!

[piedys]

I get the wish list of priorities but we are bound by a salary cap. In truth, if we were to secure even one QUALITY player that improves our short term needs, then we would have done well.

Quick ball movement makes any forward look better anyway. I like it that we have shown interest in good ball users who are quick across the ground ( Holmes,... ) ....
With Pendles and Sidey very close to the end, the salary cap will free up quickly, so hopefully that quality free agent is a real chance in the next year or two.

Then why on Earth did Hine, in all his wisdom , decide to take Finn McCrae over Max Holmes in 2020 draft? What the ****?!
Geelong snapped him up the pick after us! FAIL!
With Holmes running rampant through our midfield in 2022, and not in Geelongs, we'd be back-to-back by now and going for a three-peat.

[Kingsofclutch]

Then why on Earth did Hine, in all his wisdom , decide to take Finn McCrae over Max Holmes in 2020 draft? What the ****?!
Geelong snapped him up the pick after us! FAIL!
With Holmes running rampant through our midfield in 2022, and not in Geelongs, we'd be back-to-back by now and going for a three-peat.

The problem with 'what if's are the variables, once Holmes comes good you stitch him up on a big contract unlike Macrea, does that push someone out? Do we not end up going after a critical piece of the premiership?
I wish we had him instead of Macrea too, but if you offered me a time machine I'm not sure I'd risk our flag for him.

[BBHS]

Would love another KPD that's more mobile that Frampton as a backup type if Charlie Dean doesn't get up for games.

[piedys]

The problem with 'what if's are the variables, once Holmes comes good you stitch him up on a big contract unlike Macrea, does that push someone out? Do we not end up going after a critical piece of the premiership?
I wish we had him instead of Macrea too, but if you offered me a time machine I'm not sure I'd risk our flag for him.

Sure, that's the other butterfly effect of the butterfly effect itself when proposing such hypothetical scenarios!
Had we say knocked over Geebung in 2022QF [like we **** should have BTW...], and taken out Lions in PF, then knocked over Cats again in GF,
we might not have pursued Mitchell in that trade window, had we deemed Holmes, JDG, Adams, the Daici, Pendles and Sidey sufficient mids to get the job done again.

[think positive]

As to the topic, you'd think any list planning is being done within the context of "The Daicos Era" and how that's supposed to pan out.

We've already been 'up' since mid 2018, with only the 1 missed year of finals in 2021. Pretty much 5.5 years in already. Assuming Nick at least plays on for another 12 or 13 years, how are we going to ensure he is supported by a squad containing enough top shelf talent? As above with key forwards, if you only have the one brilliant mid, you are pretty easy to shut down, see Carlton and Judd, Collingwood and Buckley (in the late 90s at least).

Can we go 18 years without bottoming out and still remain a premiership threat at the end of it? If not, how do we go about ensuring we bottom out in the right years?

Regardless of what you think of them, Geelong and Sydney have done a pretty good job of not bottoming out.

I think your concerns are overblown. We’ve got flags to win in the next 2-3 years and that needs to be a priority IMO.

yup this

we wont get sydneees afl help getting top players, or be able to somehow bend it like geefrickenlong, so we have to trade smart

[lazzadesilva]

[Kingsofclutch]

[Presti35]

Can Ash or Krueger cement himself as a contested mark taking, consistent goal kicking FF?

Is Carmichael able to come in and help cover the loss of Adams?

Is Dean going to stay fit and can he slot straight into our back 6, especially if Murph is gone?

Is Begg able to cover for Cox in the ruck?

Is Harrisson able to step up and help cover the loss of Ginnivan?

Where is Reef at, can he play the key forward role?

Are Ryan and Richards ready to take the next step?

Does Will Kelly offer anything other than being a depth swingman?

Will Noble be able to get his place back in the side? Is he in our best 23?

Looking at the GF team; Ginni is out. Murphy may be forced to retire. Framptons spot is up for grabs. And there's a few guys on the wrong side of 30.

I'll be interested to see everyones best 23's once the list is finalised. (And if Ginni would have been a part of it).

[Piethagoras' Theorem]

Can't say I have much hope for guys like Carmichael and Macrae. I'm a big fan of McInnes and to a lesser extent, Harrison, Allen and Ryan. Will Kelly always looked likely but I think his body is already broken

[Said by Zed]

Can Ash or Krueger cement himself as a contested mark taking, consistent goal kicking FF?

Is Carmichael able to come in and help cover the loss of Adams?

Is Dean going to stay fit and can he slot straight into our back 6, especially if Murph is gone?

Is Begg able to cover for Cox in the ruck?

Is Harrisson able to step up and help cover the loss of Ginnivan?

Where is Reef at, can he play the key forward role?

Are Ryan and Richards ready to take the next step?

Does Will Kelly offer anything other than being a depth swingman?

Will Noble be able to get his place back in the side? Is he in our best 23?

Looking at the GF team; Ginni is out. Murphy may be forced to retire. Framptons spot is up for grabs. And there's a few guys on the wrong side of 30.

I'll be interested to see everyones best 23's once the list is finalised. (And if Ginni would have been a part of it).

Ash, yes. Krueger, no - hopefully he can be turned into an intercept marking defender. He’s got great hands, fast of the mark, footy smarts, and a good boot, so the parts are all there….but something just isn’t clicking.
Carmichael: no. Should never be mentioned in the same breath as Tay. Average VFL player at best.
Dean, maybe. If he can get his body right and probs put on a few kg.
Begg is not and will never be a ruck in todays game. Far too undersized. Might be able to make it as key forward / second ruck. Doubt it though.
Harrison, possibly. Needs a bit of mongrel in his game.
Reef has the most potential of all. Hope with a good preseason he stamps himself all over 2024.
Ryan will need to do much much much better than his first game. Maybe.
Richards, no. For all the hype has shown SFA in the magoos
Will Kelly, maybe. Needs to believe more. Would be another great FS story if he can pull it together.
Noble will still have a role… don’t think he’ll play finals again though.
Finn McRae will need a massive preseason…maybe hook up with Q and Nicky in the gym, and start showing he actually wants to play for the Pies and not sulking waiting to be traded to the Bulldogs to play with his bro
Ed Allen is another who came with big wraps but has shown very little to date. Who knows maybe 2024 he lives up to the hype.
Not sure what best 23 looks like yet, but with McStay back in and possibly one of Reef, Ash or McRae, and obviously Sarge, we’re not looking too shabby…should be a fun season.