Farewell #33 Jack Ginnivan

[Meredith1965]

The players will know what the rules are, presumably, but it’s not as though he was out at 2am partying. He was home by ten and not drinking. On the face of it, it was just a recreational evening in a place not known for trouble or violence. But clearly it nettled McRae, so it must have offended some unwritten rule about not being out in public the night before.

Craig Kelly was still saying on MMM after the game that McRae was not concerned about Jack going to the races, so somewhere the wires are crossed. The bigger issue for Ginni is that he was not very impactful. I wonder whether .john Noble might be groomed as a small forward next year.

Did it nettle McRae though? I saw him make that statement. It was with an eye roll at worst.

Everyone from the club with something to say about it has come out in public saying they have no problem with it. CEO says the club is fine with it. CEO says McRae is fine with it. McRae has said he's fine with it.

It's just the keyboardists and even then just a few noisy ones, that have a problem with it.

My advice to Jack right now? He should go get himself a sponsorship deal from the responsible alcohol lobby.

"You could be at the races or you could be at a pub in Torquay. Doesn't mean you have to drink"

Cheeky grin. Sip water from a glass. Sniff once.

Now that'd be an ad I'd watch.

It was an eye roll but “read the room” was still a surprising public whack. I don’t think we should read too much into it, other than he has some “growing” to do.

[K]

...
Did it nettle McRae though? I saw him make that statement. It was with an eye roll at worst.

Everyone from the club with something to say about it has come out in public saying they have no problem with it. CEO says the club is fine with it. CEO says McRae is fine with it. McRae has said he's fine with it.

It's just the keyboardists and even then just a few noisy ones, that have a problem with it.
...

It was an eye roll but “read the room” was still a surprising public whack. I don’t think we should read too much into it, other than he has some “growing” to do.

McFly's tone was gentle, but
1) his words were strong
and
2) he chose to talk about it! The journo didn't ask about it. The journo just lobbed him a feel-good question. He chose to take it there.

[Geek]

It was an eye roll but “read the room” was still a surprising public whack. I don’t think we should read too much into it, other than he has some “growing” to do.

"Read the room" isn't a surprising public whack. It's as much a comment about the people in the room as anything else, especially those that have issues with you drinking water after A Current Affair has finished for the evening

A public whack would have been "We expected our players to be at home preparing for the game and Jack has let us all down in that regard".

What he said was "°we love ya mate but sheesh, read the room will ya?" He was smiling as he said it. A bemused smile perhaps but what do you expect? He's got wowsers out there trying to brew up a storm in a teacup over this and hey.... if sipping water the night before a game is bad, imagine what a cup of tea might do to you.

Wish I got whacked like that when I were a lad.

I get that the issue for the pearl twisters is that he was at a den of iniquity or something and maybe they have visions of him chomping stogies and painting the town red in a debauched display of poor moral behaviour. I don't think they've been to the races on a Friday night. It's hardly a pulsing atmosphere especially when you're sober. I think it also shows a willing refusal to understand.... a country boy who finds relaxation and diversion in a lazy punt. After everything thrown at him the last 18 months, he shouldn't have to justify that especially on the day he finally got to stick it to the haters

[Pies2016]

^^^
Well said Geek.

[Meredith1965]

^ agree with all of the above, but it was clearly a criticism. “Read the room” means that you have not adjusted to expectations and there was a definite tone of frustration.

Fly rowed back from it a bit yesterday on his cast with Andy and Gazey(or he couched it a bit differently at least, asking if it was what a” winner” would do), but it was clear he did not approve.

I suspect he was a bit disappointed with Jack G’s modest impact on the day. Compare his running patterns to Bobby Hill’s.

[think positive]

Yeah I don’t blame him.

3 players on the sideline that absolutely deserved a spot ahead of him. Of course 2 were injured, the third just too short for his position and not a naturally crazy talent. Thing with natural crazy talent, it gets shown up in less you put the work into the other parts. By all reports he did to get himself back in the team. But much as I love Jack he wasn’t going to the death like others, I really agree with the Bobby comparisons because that’s his exact position.

Look at the difference in De Goey with his new attitude. During his shit I banged on and on about doing the work and enjoying the rewards later. And lookee he’s not just a premiership player, he was a massive reason why we are premiers. Frampton is copping it, but he played his role, he took a tall defender. So far I’ve rewatched the first half and 1/2 the last quarter. I don’t recall Ginnie lighting it up in any part of the game.

So yes, much as I enjoyed the jockey outfit, it’s time to decide if he is content with one medallion.

[SwansWay]

I’m of the opinion that he did not “work” his way back into the team at all. After a few average to below average showings in the VFL, with possibly one good game against weak VFL opposition, he was brought back in ahead of well performing players like Reef. And to think of the hype since his return with let’s be honest, very little return. Jack plays no better at the lower level than he does at the higher one. He’s identical in both and has the exact same approach.

I’d much prefer to try and train John Noble to play as a defensive small forward next season. From the get-go I only ever saw Ginni as an average depth player who could turn it on sometimes. Without his high tackle one wood, he’s got little else against good teams. It’s Stephenson mark II but at least Stevo kicked 2-3 in a GF.

[think positive]

I’m of the opinion that he did not “work” his way back into the team at all. After a few average to below average showings in the VFL, with possibly one good game against weak VFL opposition, he was brought back in ahead of well performing players like Reef. And to think of the hype since his return with let’s be honest, very little return. Jack plays no better at the lower level than he does at the higher one. He’s identical in both and has the exact same approach.

I’d much prefer to try and train John Noble to play as a defensive small forward next season. From the get-go I only ever saw Ginni as an average depth player who could turn it on sometimes. Without his high tackle one wood, he’s got little else against good teams. It’s Stephenson mark II but at least Stevo kicked 2-3 in a GF.

thats a fair point, and id love that for Noble

[LaurieHolden]

With a scoring output of 0.2 in 3 finals, reality is he got carried through the finals on the shoulders of his teammates.

While Noble might have missed due to Markov's elevation as a core member of our defensive unit, Ginnivan will also be under the same pressure from the likes of Johnson, McInnes, Harrison and Draper from Round 1 2024.
Johnson's injury was perhaps the only thing keeping Ginnivan in the final's series.
If any of those 4 let alone any draftees have a blinder of a summer, he's going to find himself as a core member of the VFL side pretty quickly for the remainder of his contract which ends in 2024.

[pietillidie]

The trip to the races looked a classic stress/anxiety reaction to me, with the lad trying to distract himself because he didn't fancy sitting about in his head waiting for the big day. And it may well be that he played the grand final too early in his own head, too. If his old man is any guide, excitability could run in the family, so be patient with him.

I also worry about him over the off season, as I do Jordy and Ash Johnson, even though we know Jordy has matured so much. But we don't even make the granny without Jordy, despite all the exaggerated moralising over his behaviour in the past.

Not to mention, our list is already thin, with ageing stars and a modest draft and cap hand, so we really need Ginni to make it.

Kids that struggle a bit behaviourally for whatever reason often struggle most when their routine is broken and they have a bit of time on their hands. So, I hope the club is onto this over the off-season, because these lads need people around them.

Wouldn't it be awesome to discover next year that Ginni, Ash and Beau had joined Nicky D and IQ's special off-season training sessions, turning themselves into super-fit beasts? That would solve a lot of recruiting headaches, that's for sure.

[Pies2016]

The classic retort to anyone attempting to defend Ginnivans trip to the races on grand final eve, will always be that he did little on the day. That’s almost impossible to argue against but is it fair to have anything more than modest expectations of a 20 year old playing against the best opposition on the biggest stage of all in the biggest day of their lives to date. I noted how underwhelming the Lions young players were on the day also. Neither Wilmot, Fletcher or the highly regarded Raynor fired a shot for the Lions and I’m tipping they didn’t choose an evening at the races either. Conversely, Naicos GF efforts was only a further reminder of just how special this young man is as a generational talent.
While I accept Ginnivan could have done things differently, I also think it’s a long bow for anyone ( and I’m not specifically pointing the finger at anyone in this thread ) to want to assume his performance was a reflection of his evening at the races.

[LaurieHolden]

^ true that. I suspect he's one of a long line of young players that have been overwhelmed with arriving at the biggest Club in the land.
Personally, I couldn't care if he was at the races. He's in full view of the public and as I understand didn't act up, just enjoying the evening.
But he did have 3 quiet finals. I just hope he has the capacity to absorb the pressure in the bubble he has around him and lean into the resources he has available to him.

[SwansWay]

I don't really have an issue with him going to the races in and of itself. It's the fact that I have my doubts that he can add much more to his game. He's a one-trick pony and that one-trick is quite sporadic. Not everybody can play well all the time but it's what you do when you're not setting the world on fire. You chase, you pressure, you act desperate. He has little endeavour. He does have a good football IQ but without pace, desperation etc, it matters little. I see him loping casually after opponents and watching his team mates do the lions share of the work.

He really adds nothing when he's not scoring. Billy Frampton's role may well have cost Brisband 3-4 goals by nullifying Andrews drive out of their backline. Structurally even, what did Ginni do to help us be better on GF day even by a tiny bit?

You could make the argument that he could've had two goals and a couple of goal assists on the day. His one set shot, he ignored Sidey's advice to kick a drop punt then his pass to Bobby was the dumbest kick you could do in that situation. Right over his head.

When he came back into the side late in the year I saw some nice, more team oriented things in one game. But that's me really searching for something to cheer him on about. When all is said and done, he's coasting on a reputation from an anomalous season where his impact had everything to do with drawing frees.

[David]

With a scoring output of 0.2 in 3 finals, reality is he got carried through the finals on the shoulders of his teammates.

No question he had a poor grand final. But he started as sub in the other two finals and had 13% and 25% game time respectively, so it's hardly fair to treat low return in the three matches collectively as some kind of dip in form.

For what it's worth, I think he actually contributed a lot in the respective last quarters of those two finals (against Melbourne, in particular, his impact was significant if I recall correctly). It's not all about goalkicking for him, and that wasn't necessarily his role when he was brought back into the team.

[LaurieHolden]

With the drums beating louder, it's going to be hard to keep the emotion out of these discussions.
Be considered in your responses. And don't maul someone else's opinion, if they do indeed give a considered response.

Just coming through the wires, Lordo has gone with the old 'anything Collingwood' to boost the first episode ratings of 3AW's Trade Wrap, but it's a legitimate discussion none-the-less, and Lordo to me is always one to use logic as opposed to going for pure headline grabs.

Matthew Lloyd has stated the one player he would look to trade out from Collingwood for Lachie Schultz