#38 Jeremy Howe

[stui magpie]

We have so many options for HBF it's ridiculous so the Seed was surplus much as i liked him.

ben Ken couldn't bring his VFL form to the AFL and had a fair queue in front of him for a role as midfielder /small forward so he too was surplus.

Depth is nice but if you can trade depth to improve the potential starting 22 you do it.

[AN_Inkling]

However the part that gets me is that Melbourne held Kennedy in such high esteem and when, not if, Kennedy gets game time, he will exceed his 68 value.
Melbourne are chuffed!! If he doesn't work out it cost them sweetfa. I would like Collingwood to get Kennedy types for that pick value, but then again we are not Melbourne.

Basically the point I'm making is that the value of something is usually worth what people are willing to pay for it and in the midst of all the intricacies of this mega deal, Melbourne found value.

We could always have held out for more in the deal, but there comes a point where the returns aren't worth the effort. We have other deals to get done and whether we got an earlier third round pick or pick 68 in this deal wasn't going to make much of a difference.

It could be that Kennedy does end up as a value pickup. If that's the case good luck to him, it didn't seem like he was going to make it at Collingwood. I see this much like when we gave up Stanley to the Gold Coast or Tom Young to the Dogs. Not disappointed to see these players get games at other clubs, they probably wouldn't have got them here.

[MagpiesTheGreat]

Hard to judge these things on the face value. For now.

Welcome to the greatest club, Howe. Hope you way exceed anyone's expectation. Go Pies!

[qldmagpie67]

Forget about who won or lost in the trade and what draft picks were exchanged look deeper into the outcome

Howe has been consistent in a very poor team. His stats since debut are actually quite good, he wins a bit of contested footy, his marking is well above average, he had speed and a tank and can kick goals.
No offence to BK or Seedy but neither have those attributes.
Hine saying he will play as a high half forward/wingman type who can get forward and be a target around goal. That only helps our scoring potential.

For mine I think this means Elliott plays as a stay deep forward with Moore, Cloke plays CHF, Howe plays high half forward and we use the likes of Swanny, Fasalo or resting ruckman an the other.
I think he fits our needs more then the 2 players we lost.
25 with 100 games and 80 goals adds some experience to a side brimming with youth.
Add Treloar with 70 games at 22 and we now have 2 more players coming into or just entering there prime.
I'll trust Hine judgement on this he has enough runs on the board and he clearly has worked with the coaching staff on what our needs are and the style of game we want to play.
For mine I think this shows we are planning on playing a more expansive attacking style come 2016

[Geek]

...

I think Collingwood were not bent over badly but we weren't winners.... for now. Maybe we will do a Hawthorn and see the value in Howe in years to come....heres hoping.
Hope Collingwood get seen as a club that " gave a little" and are recognised as a club that gets things done, dare I say it unlike the Brions.

Pretty much how I see it. And as Inky says, we could have probably held out for more but it wasn't worth the effort and time. We needed to get Seedsman and Kennedy worked out.

We don't need any more back flankers and presumably, we'll soon have enough quality mids. What we don't have is forwards who can work hard, make space, take a grab and have a better than 50% chance of kicking the goal.

Howe fits our age profile nicely. We don't have to wait for a taller forward to develop while our young guns come on line. He's got 100 games behind him now and his best footy just ahead of him

Moore will not get the 2nd defender

None of my best 22's had Seedsman or BK in there. Howe has a flank, no worries. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that we are now just that small crumber away from having a complete forward line, at least as long as Cloke stands up.

On the negative side, the two guys we are losing still had plenty of upside in them if we could have just coaxed it out of them. Howe is near his peak. I'd have loved to see BK make it with us. I thought we really stifled his development. And Seedsman looked like he was coming of age there earlier this year but it wasn't to be.

I wish them all the best. Wish we could have got a better pick than 67, even if Dekka can pull gems out from down that way.

[Skids]

Going to be a real ripper! The trade that was most pivotal to our structure. Whatever else we claim, it's a bonus

[piedys]

He's a terrific mark and is a pretty good size for a mid size forward at 190 cms. He probably needs to work on his two way running, but he could be valuable. He's been at a shit club, so I reckon he could thrive under Bucks and the professional environment at our club.

Guess we'll find out soon enough!

[Domesticated_Ape]

So it wasn't 68 for Kennedy. Part of Kennedy's value went into securing Howe as pick 32 alone was not enough. Given that Kennedy's not worth a huge amount more than 68, that's a fair deal.

quoting Ink ^^

Having just got my frustrations out on the squash court and settled down with a corona, I can see the logic in trade and it eases the pain.

However the part that gets me is that Melbourne held Kennedy in such high esteem and when, not if, Kennedy gets game time, he will exceed his 68 value. Remembering that Kennedy was contracted and he did cost us a late first rounder. So there is a loss no matter how you look at it.

Melbourne are chuffed!! If he doesn't work out it cost them sweetfa. I would like Collingwood to get Kennedy types for that pick value, but then again we are not Melbourne.

Basically the point I'm making is that the value of something is usually worth what people are willing to pay for it and in the midst of all the intricacies of this mega deal, Melbourne found value, at our expense.

Terry Wallace did say that sometimes clubs have to give a little to get a trade done and even if it feels you have paid overs eg Hawthorn getting Burgoynes, Lakes, Gibsons, Gunstons etc the plaudits for smooth trading goes to clubs who move things on quickly.

I think Collingwood were not bent over badly but we weren't winners.... for now. Maybe we will do a Hawthorn and see the value in Howe in years to come....heres hoping.
Hope Collingwood get seen as a club that " gave a little" and are recognised as a club that gets things done, dare I say it unlike the Brions.

Good post.

I wonder if we've been seen to have too many trade/draft wins over the past few years. The Beams deal worked for us. Getting rid of Daisy for a first rounder at the right time and then upgrading it to pick 6 and grabbing the highly rated Scharenberg was masterful. Dawes, Heater and Wellingham are all at least win/win's. Even Darcy Moore as a father son would have been noticed. Maybe other clubs are worried about what we're building and this is why Treloar and Aish deals are so hard to get done. In that case, pushing this deal through without haggling might have been a bit of a PR exercise, and I could live with that.

Just a thought and yeah, I realise it doesn't seem to apply to Hawthorn, but they're not Collingwood.

[jackcass]

seedo for pick 32 is not the worst outcome. late second round pick.

Only cost us a pick in the 70s so we've upgraded really.

[E]

Howe means we can send Reid to the Backline forever, where he belongs. A great pick up as we have a gap up forward with Reid becoming a backman again,

yes, Reid will make a great backman in the 3 games next year he is fit for. I think we need to start referring to Reid as Reid/Frost - as in Reid is our first choice, but no one seriously thinks he will ACTUALLY play meaningful games. Instead, Frost will come in for him most weeks.

[Cuthbert Collingwood]

^ you of course mean Reidfrostbrown

[E]

...

I think Collingwood were not bent over badly but we weren't winners.... for now. Maybe we will do a Hawthorn and see the value in Howe in years to come....heres hoping.
Hope Collingwood get seen as a club that " gave a little" and are recognised as a club that gets things done, dare I say it unlike the Brions.

Pretty much how I see it. And as Inky says, we could have probably held out for more but it wasn't worth the effort and time. We needed to get Seedsman and Kennedy worked out.

We don't need any more back flankers and presumably, we'll soon have enough quality mids. What we don't have is forwards who can work hard, make space, take a grab and have a better than 50% chance of kicking the goal.

Howe fits our age profile nicely. We don't have to wait for a taller forward to develop while our young guns come on line. He's got 100 games behind him now and his best footy just ahead of him

Moore will not get the 2nd defender

None of my best 22's had Seedsman or BK in there. Howe has a flank, no worries. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that we are now just that small crumber away from having a complete forward line, at least as long as Cloke stands up.

On the negative side, the two guys we are losing still had plenty of upside in them if we could have just coaxed it out of them. Howe is near his peak. I'd have loved to see BK make it with us. I thought we really stifled his development. And Seedsman looked like he was coming of age there earlier this year but it wasn't to be.

I wish them all the best. Wish we could have got a better pick than 67, even if Dekka can pull gems out from down that way.

two observations to support your argument:

1. I suspect Hine's view is that in this draft, pick 68 doesn't get you a better player than pick 35. In fact, in Hine's view, outside of the top dozen players, its hard to see a player becoming a Collingwood regular (i.e., not impossible, but probability very low). I understand pick 68 might end up being thrown in to get the GWS deal done!

2. didn't everyone complain all year that they would like a taller person than Jarryd Blair playing as the high lead up forward. Well you've all got your bloody wish!!!!!!

[SwansWay]

Nothing to add. I just think right on! Another true Collingwood man finds his way home. Boyhood dream coming true. Great story! With players having more power with free agency and trade, you'll see more players going to the clubs they supported as kids.

[WarrenerraW]

I think there's enough players who will chase the $$$ alas dai$y and not necessarily seek a trade to the club they supported as a kid. Howe comes with an armful of tatts, so he at least we know he will fit in to our side well.

[SwansWay]

There's always exceptions but Danger is another example too. He's taken less money to go to Geelong. By the way, does it seem like we're paying more for Treloar than Geelong had to pay for Dangerfield who is leagues ahead of Treloar at this stage?