#38 Jeremy Howe

5150 · Post by **5150** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:15 pm

Wokko wrote:Pies fan, idolized Bucks as a kid. He kept an autograph in his wallet until it fell apart.

I like the guy more and more.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/video/2 ... 9_33971241

Must have been a crappy wallet then. Hopefully with the money we pay him he can get himself a decent one.

Domesticated_Ape · Post by **Domesticated_Ape** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:25 pm

Pies4shaw wrote:He cost us two reserves players. Neither of them could break into a side that couldn't get a kick in the second half of the season.

We better hope Howe finishes top 10 in the Copeland in 2016 or else we'd probably be better off with the depth.

AN_Inkling wrote:
I wasn't comparing Kennedy to Howe I was rating his output, and it's very poor. You'll notice that Toumpas was traded for not much, that's about where Kennedy's value was too, though Toumpas gets more of a premium for being such a high pick originally. Both have shown little to nothing at AFL level. We never had a leg to stand on in trading Kennedy. We can say we like the boy, but how do we respond to the question of "why did he only 5 games in a largely injury free year?". There was no way to convince Melbourne that we valued him above a third round pick.

I'd shut up if we got the same for BK as they got for Toump. I wouldn't be happy, but you wouldn't hear about it. Fact is we didn't get that though. We traded Seedsman and BK for Howe and a nothing pick.

Our leg(s) to stand on were the fact that BK's only 20/21 and he's contracted for 2016. We didn't stand though, we fell over.

Howe does have more value than Seedsman. He's played 100 games in 5 years, Seedsman has played 49 in 4. It's Seedsman who is being signed more on potential than output. If he puts it together and performs consistently and adds a bit more toughness he'll become a player. In his time at Collingwood he was not able to do that. Howe has shown to be an AFL player. We know what he can do. Sure there's hope that he may be able to improve with a move to another club, but that's not being relied on for him to be a handy player for us.

Disagree. Seed played for us, in real football matches. Howe played for Melbourne. Don't try to tell me that playing for Melbourne is equal to playing for Collingwood, that'd be a massive waste of both of our time because neither of us believe it, nor will we after you get through with your argument.

Also disagree that Howe will be a definite handy player for us. There's a chance he'll play VFL, Ink. There always was and that's why we were supposed to get him cheap.

Add to this that we're over paying for Treloar, selling Freeman cheaply and will probably miss out on Aish because we got raped on all the other deals and I think it's pretty reasonable to feel a little bit down right now.

I hope I'm just channeling Cigar and Thumbsuck, but I'm seriously not enjoying this trade period.

AN_Inkling · Post by **AN_Inkling** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:33 pm

Howe will definitely be a handy player. He has pace and a great tank and is a mid-aged player of which we don't have a great deal. He's very likely to play pretty much every game, more likely than Seedsman would have been.

And Melbourne only got pick 29 for 32 and pick 50 for Toumpas. That's not much more than 68 and the shortfall between Howe and 32 for Kennedy. Having been a former pick 4 I can see where Toumpas gets a bit of an edge over Kennedy despite both not having shown much at all.

We're discussing late picks here that really mean little. The main part of this deal was Seedsman for Howe and I see it as a definite win. Howe is more ready to have an impact in 2016 than Seedsman.

inxs88 · Post by **inxs88** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:37 pm

Again we got rolled a tad here. If one was to compare both:

* Kennedy (pick 68)
* Seedsman (pick 32) to Jed Anderson (pick 15)

It shows the market being out of whack here!! Old Jed 10 indifferent games in 3 seasons is rated twice the player Seedsman is and 4.5 times the player Kennedy is?????

Please!

Dave The Man · Post by **Dave The Man** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:42 pm

Interviews:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6ldHeUWCfo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCeM1JrwiZY

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:44 pm

Welcome, Jeremy. You'll go alright

Post by **WhyPhilWhy?** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:46 pm

If Billy ever gets a ride on Jeremy's shoulders (or vice versa) someone will need to lodge a flight plan.

3rd degree · Post by **3rd degree** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:03 pm

Welcome aboard Howe , now get that grand old hag song out of your 3kz!

Domesticated_Ape · Post by **Domesticated_Ape** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:03 pm

AN_Inkling wrote:
Domesticated_Ape wrote:
Pies4shaw wrote:He cost us two reserves players. Neither of them could break into a side that couldn't get a kick in the second half of the season.
We better hope Howe finishes top 10 in the Copeland in 2016 or else we'd probably be better off with the depth.
AN_Inkling wrote:
I wasn't comparing Kennedy to Howe I was rating his output, and it's very poor. You'll notice that Toumpas was traded for not much, that's about where Kennedy's value was too, though Toumpas gets more of a premium for being such a high pick originally. Both have shown little to nothing at AFL level. We never had a leg to stand on in trading Kennedy. We can say we like the boy, but how do we respond to the question of "why did he only 5 games in a largely injury free year?". There was no way to convince Melbourne that we valued him above a third round pick.
I'd shut up if we got the same for BK as they got for Toump. I wouldn't be happy, but you wouldn't hear about it. Fact is we didn't get that though. We traded Seedsman and BK for Howe and a nothing pick.

Our leg(s) to stand on were the fact that BK's only 20/21 and he's contracted for 2016. We didn't stand though, we fell over.

Howe does have more value than Seedsman. He's played 100 games in 5 years, Seedsman has played 49 in 4. It's Seedsman who is being signed more on potential than output. If he puts it together and performs consistently and adds a bit more toughness he'll become a player. In his time at Collingwood he was not able to do that. Howe has shown to be an AFL player. We know what he can do. Sure there's hope that he may be able to improve with a move to another club, but that's not being relied on for him to be a handy player for us.
Disagree. Seed played for us, in real football matches. Howe played for Melbourne. Don't try to tell me that playing for Melbourne is equal to playing for Collingwood, that'd be a massive waste of both of our time because neither of us believe it, nor will we after you get through with your argument.

Also disagree that Howe will be a definite handy player for us. There's a chance he'll play VFL, Ink. There always was and that's why we were supposed to get him cheap.

Add to this that we're over paying for Treloar, selling Freeman cheaply and will probably miss out on Aish because we got raped on all the other deals and I think it's pretty reasonable to feel a little bit down right now.

I hope I'm just channeling Cigar and Thumbsuck, but I'm seriously not enjoying this trade period.
Howe will definitely be a handy player. He has pace and a great tank and is a mid-aged player of which we don't have a great deal. He's very likely to play pretty much every game, more likely than Seedsman would have been.

And Melbourne only got pick 29 for 32 and pick 50 for Toumpas. That's not much more than 68 and the shortfall between Howe and 32 for Kennedy. Having been a former pick 4 I can see where Toumpas gets a bit of an edge over Kennedy despite both not having shown much at all.

We're discussing late picks here that really mean little. The main part of this deal was Seedsman for Howe and I see it as a definite win. Howe is more ready to have an impact in 2016 than Seedsman.

You're more convinced on Howe now than you were when I was talking him up a few weeks ago, that's for sure. Guess the black and white stripes do improve him, but isn't that just visual?

Pick 32 came from us, via Adelaide. Melbourne never had it. So they did not get "pick 29 for 32" at all, in any way shape or form. They only gave up players, just like us. They gave up Howe and Toumpas and got picks 29 and 50. We gave up Seedsman and Kennedy and got Howe and nothing(pick 68 ).

Draft positions don't mean anything, if they did then BK is a star cos he was pick 19, same as Fyfe!!!

Howe and Seedsman would be a fine swap, it's the BK for nothing that has me annoyed.

I don't think we're going to convince each other either way, Ink. So leave it at that if you like and we'll just wait and see how we go next year. I'll just finish by saying that I can't be on Howe's bandwagon to the same degree that I wanted to, not with this deal. Now I have expectations of him that I'm not sure he can meet. Hope I'm wrong, but gotta go with the gut feel.

MAY-Z · Post by **MAY-Z** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:05 pm

I think there is a big lack of knowledge here about how good Howe can actually be.

Just reading a few years worth of Champion Data prospectus' - in 2012 his 2nd year in the competition he was the 5th best winner of one-on-one contests in the league, and was 3rd in contested marking (behind Cloke & Hawkins) both pretty impressive stats considering he was playing in a poor side.

His champion data ranking points had him ranked above average for his position in 2012, 2013 and 2014

Post by **Pies4shaw** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:07 pm

So, we gave up two players who were surplus to requirements for one that isn't (and, perhaps, some points to give to Brisbane). I don't see the problem with the recruiting. It's what the Coach wanted - and he's got it.

AN_Inkling · Post by **AN_Inkling** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:09 pm

You could possibly argue it differently, but the pick 32 was given by Adelaide for Seedsman, we gave it up for Howe and then Port took it with Toumpas and gave Melbourne 29 and 50.

magpieazza · Post by **magpieazza** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:22 pm

So it wasn't 68 for Kennedy. Part of Kennedy's value went into securing Howe as pick 32 alone was not enough. Given that Kennedy's not worth a huge amount more than 68, that's a fair deal.

quoting Ink ^^

Having just got my frustrations out on the squash court and settled down with a corona, I can see the logic in trade and it eases the pain.

However the part that gets me is that Melbourne held Kennedy in such high esteem and when, not if, Kennedy gets game time, he will exceed his 68 value. Remembering that Kennedy was contracted and he did cost us a late first rounder. So there is a loss no matter how you look at it.

Melbourne are chuffed!! If he doesn't work out it cost them sweetfa. I would like Collingwood to get Kennedy types for that pick value, but then again we are not Melbourne.

Basically the point I'm making is that the value of something is usually worth what people are willing to pay for it and in the midst of all the intricacies of this mega deal, Melbourne found value, at our expense.

Terry Wallace did say that sometimes clubs have to give a little to get a trade done and even if it feels you have paid overs eg Hawthorn getting Burgoynes, Lakes, Gibsons, Gunstons etc the plaudits for smooth trading goes to clubs who move things on quickly.

I think Collingwood were not bent over badly but we weren't winners.... for now. Maybe we will do a Hawthorn and see the value in Howe in years to come....heres hoping.
Hope Collingwood get seen as a club that " gave a little" and are recognised as a club that gets things done, dare I say it unlike the Brions.

What'sinaname · Post by **What'sinaname** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:24 pm

Howe means we can send Reid to the Backline forever, where he belongs. A great pick up as we have a gap up forward with Reid becoming a backman again,

roar · Post by **roar** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:24 pm

Got rid of two also rans for a best 22 player. He might turn out to be another White but we have lost nothing.

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#38 Jeremy Howe